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WA State and E10 Gas...
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  1. #1

    Default WA State and E10 Gas...

    Hi All,

    Does anyone know when we switch over to the "summer" non-ethanol additive gas at the pumps?

    Thanks in advance,

    Greg

  2. #2
    Structural Member geddyt's Avatar
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    Weird. I haven't heard anything about this and work at a refinery!
    I'm an ideas man, Michael. I think I proved that with *bleep* Mountain.

  3. #3
    Grid Fluffer for hire! Lauralynne's Avatar
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    should be out today at most Shell stations - the other stations won't start until May, something about a higher tax on it so higher prices.
    Laura
    WMRRA's slowest Expert
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    Growing the race team by 1 in 2011

  4. #4
    Structural Member geddyt's Avatar
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    This is all very interesting to me. I work in the crude unit and coker at the Shell refinery in Anacortes. So basically the mouth and ass end of the refinery. But I've talked plenty to operators in all of the process units, including the blending plant. Unless things have changed really recently, I was under the impression that we do no ethanol blending at our plant. I've seen the single pipeline that connects our process units to the blending plant and through to the loading rack, where it splits off into the generic/Shell/Chevron/Texaco tanks. As I understand it, proprietary additives (Techron, V-Power, etc.) are added there and then it's shipped via trucks to all of the local stations. I think another pipe runs straight from the blending plant and into the OPL, which takes it straight to the terminal in Seattle where it's split-off, mixed with additives, and shipped out. Perhaps ethanol is added there?

    I don't know. I'm going to track down someone from the blending plant next time I see one and ask them if things have changed. Just from reading online I noticed that the Washington ethanol law doesn't have to be followed unil May of 2008, so maybe we're just not doing it yet. But if you're using Shell, Chevron, Texaco, and a lot of generic gas (Costco, Fred Meyer, Safeway, etc.) in this state, it's coming from us.
    I'm an ideas man, Michael. I think I proved that with *bleep* Mountain.

  5. #5
    Member Blisterin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geddyt View Post
    But if you're using Shell, Chevron, Texaco, and a lot of generic gas (Costco, Fred Meyer, Safeway, etc.) in this state, it's coming from us.
    How about a discount for your wmrra buddies?

  6. #6
    Structural Member geddyt's Avatar
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    Shit, dude, they wouldn't even sponsor ME in racing, let alone anyone else. Hell, they wouldn't even give me the days off to do it, hence me quitting racing for the time being. If they don't give their employees discounted gas, fat chance I'm gonna get it for you guys...

    I did get some clarification on the ethanol, though. Apparently we DO blend a little ethanol in during the winter time. Huh, can't believe I didn't know that. It's put in to lower the freezing point of the fuel during the cold months. The engineer that would know when it's taken out for the summer didn't answer his phone when I called, so we'll just assume Laura's right.
    I'm an ideas man, Michael. I think I proved that with *bleep* Mountain.

  7. #7

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    Thanks everyone!

    I knew that someone here would know. I spent a long time online trying to figgure it out and only found it mentioned on an aviation website that said WA would be going to 10% ETOH full time in Dec of 08... And to perhaps to even more later. Seems that the FAA wont allow ANY ETOH in their pump-gas driven engines, or so the site says.

    Just for info, Oregon is full time 10% ETOH now... So get your gas in WA before going to PIR!!!!!!!

    Thanks again for all the info, and thanks to Laura for the sweet warmers. I'll be using them for the first OMRRA weekend very soon!!

    Greg Levin
    #71 OMRRA

  8. #8
    Grid Fluffer for hire! Lauralynne's Avatar
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    umm...mine was april fool's. I barely know how to put gas in my vehicles...

    Thank goodness I know about tire Warmers though - you're welcome and good luck!

    and I do know that I have until April 30th to put summer air in my tires or I'll get pulled over!
    Last edited by Lauralynne; 04-02-2008 at 10:37 AM.
    Laura
    WMRRA's slowest Expert
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    Growing the race team by 1 in 2011

  9. #9
    Structural Member geddyt's Avatar
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    Okay, good news people: The guy I talked to yesterday was full of shit.

    I just got off the phone with the head of our blending plant and I was correct in my initial statement.

    We DO pipe gasoline down to the Portland terminal. Any Shell/Chevron/Texaco and some generic gasoline that you buy in Portland and probably much of northern Oregon comes from our refinery. However, the ethanol is added at the terminal to meet the mandate, not at our plant.

    As I thought before, NO ethanol leaves our plant. Not on trucks, not through pipeline. We do not blend it here, nor is it added at the Seattle terminal. Meaning ANY Shell, Chevron, or Texaco gas which you buy in the state of Washington is 100% gasoline. Which is why I always spend the extra to buy those brands (Chevron has always treated my vehicles best, it seems).

    The guy I talked to yesterday that thought ethanol is added in the winter to lower freezing point was close, but no cigar. In the winter we lower the vapor pressure by adding more butane. Not sure when we start or stop this, though, and not sure what effect it has on performance.

    He did mention, however, that this will not be the case for long and that some time this year the hammer will fall on us as well and we'll be stuck with ethanol blends. At which point it will not be just a winter thing, but a constant year-round. I've heard December and I've heard May, but don't know for sure when this will happen. Obviously our blenders have already been warned...

    So to answer the original E-10 question, there IS no E-10 so long as you fill up at Chevron/Texaco/Shell.

    So for now, hell yeah! Fill up in Washington! Avoid BP, Arco, maybe 76 (I seem to remember seeing some percentage of ethanol labeled on a 76 pump a few years back, but I could be wrong). Chevron is my favorite, Texaco now uses Chevron's additive and is therefore now the exact same gas, and Shell is decent gas, too. You can buy generic, but there's no guarantee where it came from, but I CAN guarantee that it's got a minimum additive package to satisfy the law and will not keep your engine as clean as the name brands will. So spend your $$ how you wish, but you've been warned. (And I'm not saying this because I work at Shell--hell, I hope the place goes out of business or gets sold to someone that's better to work for.)

    There's a Tesoro plant next door and they don't blend ethanol, either, but I'm not as sure where their gas goes.
    I'm an ideas man, Michael. I think I proved that with *bleep* Mountain.

  10. #10

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    "So to answer the original E-10 question, there IS no E-10 so long as you fill up at Chevron/Texaco/Shell."

    That's what I needed to hear. I saw a "10% Ethanol blah, blah, blah" sticker on the ARCO pump I used on Monday. I will hit up the ones you suggested!

    Thanks for the info,

    Greg

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