Who crashed into me in turn #7-Novice heat 2 on Sun 4-02-06???

[justintime2]

Leaned over for the entrance to the turn #8 left hand sweeper with a bike just off of my front left quarter, when another bike hit me from the right side. You burried your handle bar into my ram air tube, which now has a gaping hole in it, and we got tangled up at speed. Once we untangled I recovered but out of the corner of my eye it didn't appear that you did.

I understand this is racing, and were novices at that, so i'm not pissed as much as I want to learn from it and wonder what your perspective was. It looked clearly to be your mistake as you were on my ouside rear quarter and turned down and into me. That was a pretty tense deal.

-Did you crash?
-Are you OK?
-WTF happened?

JT #904

[Mr Sunshine]

It wasn't me but by chance did you just pass someone like going into turn 5 or 6? If so do you remember who that was as it could have been them.

[justintime2]

I don't recall passing someone before the entanglement but doesn't mean it didn't happen. The crash was pretty hairy but there was no "mad swooping", me and another racer to my left were staggered rear tire to front taking the line through. Who ever it was came down from the top of the track to get back in on the race line and that's when the crash occured.

Again I'm not angry about this I just want to learn from it and his perspective may help in that. If he crashed I hope he is OK and the bike too.

If your reading this and you don't want to yard out publicly on the forum just email me, it will be kept private. :)

justintime_2@hotmail.com
It's hard to see with the underlining but there is an underscore between the "e" and the "2"

[Hypnotiq]

What lap was this on? I didn't remember seeing this.

I was the one that was with you the last 2-3 laps when I finally was able to get you going into T9.

That was a lot of fun going back and forth with you, hope it was just as much fun for you :)

- Nico
#923

[chd]

Never saw any crashes, but saw one of our fellow bro's in my peripheral in turn two (like third lap?) out in the run-off area -- I talked with him afterwards, and he's ok... just a bruised hip I think. Glad everyone's OK, it was great meeting some of you. Man that was a big grid!

Colin Davidson
(#900)

[Hypnotiq]

Never saw any crashes, but saw one of our fellow bro's in my peripheral in turn two (like third lap?) out in the run-off area -- I talked with him afterwards, and he's ok... just a bruised hip I think. Glad everyone's OK, it was great meeting some of you. Man that was a big grid!

Colin Davidson
(#900)

About 3 or 4 other novices followed him off into T2 as well. Big time target fixation. :eek:

I was about 1.5s behind when I saw it happen.

[jwinn76]

Yeah man i was looking forward to running more than ONE lap! :mad: But i am ok. Bike is better than me. I just am brusied up pretty bad. I was riding the whole weekend from Adren freaks on Friday to NRC and Novice on Saturday and Sunday. My bike was doing well all weeknd even through the rain, me and Colin were riding with LASH (thanks again LASH)and doing pretty well. So let me explain what happend some maybe some people will learn from my mistake.

So i was going into turn 2 really Hot, i was in sixth gear full throttle leaning into turn one, I downshifted 2 and then my bike went into "false neutral". It was crazy. I let off the clutch and all i heard was silence. No engine break, nothing. So i was coasting at probably 120. SO i freaked out and instead of paying attention to turn and leaning over i go death grip and broke hard on the front. Hit the grass and next thing i know i am off the bike tumbling.

So a lesson that i learned is that when i doubt lean the bike over and dont freak out when everything doesnt go as planned. Cause a lowside is better then a highside crash.

Thanks for the great weekend guys. Hope to see you in May if not racing then corner working!

[justintime2]

Not sure which lap, but it was 2nd half of the race. Allot of details went in the "don't remember file" once the incident occured as it freaked me out. I still can't believe I didn't go down.

I had an absolute blast! That was my first time on a 1000, I usually ride a Hayabusa, and my first time ever on that track. I certainly had as much fun as you did and look forward to doing it again soon.
What lap was this on? I didn't remember seeing this.

I was the one that was with you the last 2-3 laps when I finally was able to get you going into T9.

That was a lot of fun going back and forth with you, hope it was just as much fun for you :)

- Nico
#923

[justintime2]

Glad to hear your doing OK, that sounds pretty hairy.

The four of us on our racing team, BNS Racing, are all fire fighters and I am still finding it quite difficult to resist the natural and trained response to stop and help. It just doesn't make sense to my brain from so many years of responding to accident scenes to not help, arrggghhhhh.

Yeah man i was looking forward to running more than ONE lap! :mad: But i am ok. Bike is better than me. I just am brusied up pretty bad. I was riding the whole weekend from Adren freaks on Friday to NRC and Novice on Saturday and Sunday. My bike was doing well all weeknd even through the rain, me and Colin were riding with LASH (thanks again LASH)and doing pretty well. So let me explain what happend some maybe some people will learn from my mistake.

So i was going into turn 2 really Hot, i was in sixth gear full throttle leaning into turn one, I downshifted 2 and then my bike went into "false neutral". It was crazy. I let off the clutch and all i heard was silence. No engine break, nothing. So i was coasting at probably 120. SO i freaked out and instead of paying attention to turn and leaning over i go death grip and broke hard on the front. Hit the grass and next thing i know i am off the bike tumbling.

So a lesson that i learned is that when i doubt lean the bike over and dont freak out when everything doesnt go as planned. Cause a lowside is better then a highside crash.

Thanks for the great weekend guys. Hope to see you in May if not racing then corner working!

[justintime2]

Nico, I may have some pics of you if we were that close for that long, as my brother was doing some filming. I won't have the disc for another week but will let you know. Here is a low res uncropped version he emailed me today, draggin through 5. Each image is 16mb so they are huge. :)

[justintime2]

Actually I just saw that you are sponsored by studio819 so you probably have all the pics you need.

[justintime2]

Speaking of grids, they started that race early so me and 908 missed the practice lap and got on the grid 30 secs before the race started. So much for warming up the tires, we went in racing completely cold. :(
Never saw any crashes, but saw one of our fellow bro's in my peripheral in turn two (like third lap?) out in the run-off area -- I talked with him afterwards, and he's ok... just a bruised hip I think. Glad everyone's OK, it was great meeting some of you. Man that was a big grid!

Colin Davidson
(#900)

[AndrewN]

About 3 or 4 other novices followed him off into T2 as well. Big time target fixation. :eek:

I was about 1.5s behind when I saw it happen.

..target what?? :-) if i would have known i would be driving through the dirt, i would have put some different tires on! I got lucky and made it back on the track ... one Novice race down.

p.s. yeah.. that target fixation thing is true - what a great learning experience.

[Mr Sunshine]

Speaking of grids, they started that race early so me and 908 missed the practice lap and got on the grid 30 secs before the race started. So much for warming up the tires, we went in racing completely cold. :(

They did? Glad I got out there early then.

[justintime2]

Sorry one more photo, me and my buddy coming out of the bus stop. I started coming out in 2nd gear after enough of these because it was slowing me down. Looks good though. :)

[Hypnotiq]

Nico, I may have some pics of you if we were that close for that long, as my brother was doing some filming. I won't have the disc for another week but will let you know. Here is a low res uncropped version he emailed me today, draggin through 5. Each image is 16mb so they are huge. :)

Nice pic! Yeah, let me know if he has anything. I think it was the last 2 or 3 laps that we were together. Its a blur. :)

You kept yanking on me on the front and back straight but I was getting close on the brakes in 9 and 2.

Man that was fun! :D Hope to do it again next time...

[Mr Sunshine]

Sorry one more photo, me and my buddy coming out of the bus stop. I started coming out in 2nd gear after enough of these because it was slowing me down. Looks good though. :)


Ya it took me awhile to get used to coming out of the bus stop in 2nd gear on my F4i. Because to make the bus stop right in 1st gear you have to slow down way too much. The problem is getting used to coming through the bus stop fast enough so that you don't bog on the way out in 2nd.

Shit man here I am giving away what I know...but I'm sllloooww....so who gives a crap! :)

[Studio819]

I can't be everywhere at once. I can make sure to get the best shots though when I am there :)

[Darkside]

Ya it took me awhile to get used to coming out of the bus stop in 2nd gear on my F4i. Because to make the bus stop right in 1st gear you have to slow down way too much. The problem is getting used to coming through the bus stop fast enough so that you don't bog on the way out in 2nd.

Shit man here I am giving away what I know...but I'm sllloooww....so who gives a crap! :)

May want to check your gearing, if you are still running stock gearing you are most definitly to low in the rpm range for the bus stop. Not sure what it shoudl be but on my 04gsxr600 I'm 15/46 with a 190 rear and it still feels a little slow but I cant do a 47 rear well maybe I should just try it for a track day....hmmmmm

[Hypnotiq]

Drag the rear brake a little on the exit of the bus stop and you'll keep that front wheel from going up high into the air. :)

[Mr Sunshine]

May want to check your gearing, if you are still running stock gearing you are most definitly to low in the rpm range for the bus stop. Not sure what it shoudl be but on my 04gsxr600 I'm 15/46 with a 190 rear and it still feels a little slow but I cant do a 47 rear well maybe I should just try it for a track day....hmmmmm

The gearing is the gearing which Phil Clark ran on that same bike. I can't remember the numbers but it is up several teeth in the rear from stock.

The main problem is I can go through the bus stop much faster than I do now. I thought about going up another tooth or two in the rear but I figure it will hamper me when I start to get faster and I'll have to just go back to the current gearing.

[justintime2]

I guess this guy is a mystery?
Maybe it never happened and the ram air tube gremlin got me, LOL!

[Robbie]

I'm not sure who it was, but I spoke with you right after the race at Jamie's pits. This guy probably isn't even on the forum but if I had to take a guess it was one of the fast guys out there running 1:36's. Which I think is stupid to have these guys out there.

It makes it more dangerous for those of us running in the 1:40's or even slower. Hell I got stuffed into T3, but everything worked out. But I would guess running those speeds which are WAY faster than any of us he was going off lines and stuffing people to get bye us.

The talent gab in expert is just as broad however they have more experiance with handling these situation and well we don't :) ! Anyways it sure was fun can't wait till portland end of April, hope to see you guys out there!

[Hypnotiq]

Hey man, did your brother end up with any photos of you and I mixing it up? Let me know.

- Nico

[justintime2]

Nothing...can you believe that? :(
Hey man, did your brother end up with any photos of you and I mixing it up? Let me know.

- Nico

[tarheel]

Leaned over for the entrance to the turn #7 left hand sweeper with a bike just off of my front left quarter, when another bike hit me from the right side. You burried your handle bar into my ram air tube, which now has a gaping hole in it, and we got tangled up at speed. Once we untangled I recovered but out of the corner of my eye it didn't appear that you did.

I understand this is racing, and were novices at that, so i'm not pissed as much as I want to learn from it and wonder what your perspective was. It looked clearly to be your mistake as you were on my ouside rear quarter and turned down and into me. That was a pretty tense deal.

-Did you crash?
-Are you OK?
-WTF happened?

JT #904

Turn 7 left hand sweeper? I thought turn 7 was at the bottom of the hill on the backside. I beleive the only left hand sweepers are 2 and 9.

[Robbie]

Yeah man i was looking forward to running more than ONE lap! :mad: But i am ok. Bike is better than me. I just am brusied up pretty bad. I was riding the whole weekend from Adren freaks on Friday to NRC and Novice on Saturday and Sunday. My bike was doing well all weeknd even through the rain, me and Colin were riding with LASH (thanks again LASH)and doing pretty well. So let me explain what happend some maybe some people will learn from my mistake.

So i was going into turn 2 really Hot, i was in sixth gear full throttle leaning into turn one, I downshifted 2 and then my bike went into "false neutral". It was crazy. I let off the clutch and all i heard was silence. No engine break, nothing. So i was coasting at probably 120. SO i freaked out and instead of paying attention to turn and leaning over i go death grip and broke hard on the front. Hit the grass and next thing i know i am off the bike tumbling.

So a lesson that i learned is that when i doubt lean the bike over and dont freak out when everything doesnt go as planned. Cause a lowside is better then a highside crash.

Thanks for the great weekend guys. Hope to see you in May if not racing then corner working!

Ok so I was thinking about this last night ( no I don't love you) and ethier i'm missing something or something doens't add up! So you had sixth pinned into turn 1. Then you down shifted twice and ended up in a "false netural"? :confused:.

Now I don't know what your gearing and stuff like that is but T2 is a third gear corner I thought so how the heck did you end up in netural only shifting down twice from sixth gear! I wonder if your tranny or something isn't having problems. I've NEVER heard of anything like that.

[Mr Sunshine]

Ok so I was thinking about this last night ( no I don't love you) and ethier i'm missing something or something doens't add up! So you had sixth pinned into turn 1. Then you down shifted twice and ended up in a "false netural"? :confused:.

Now I don't know what your gearing and stuff like that is but T2 is a third gear corner I thought so how the heck did you end up in netural only shifting down twice from sixth gear! I wonder if your tranny or something isn't having problems. I've NEVER heard of anything like that.

T2 a 3rd gear corner? I've always learned it as a 4th gear corner. Um...interesting.

I know my F4i loves to hit a false neutral on my up shift into 6th gear. If I don't do it just right, it looses it.

Remember a false neutral is when you should be in a particular gear but the tranny doesn't click into it and you are stuck between gears. It doesn't mean you went into the neutral position of your gear box.

[AndrewN]

Turn 7 left hand sweeper? I thought turn 7 was at the bottom of the hill on the backside. I beleive the only left hand sweepers are 2 and 9.

I think 7 is a lefty dude - airfence on the right hand side.. by the corner station. the really slick corner - some great pics of a silver bike slamming that air fence from the 1st.

[Mr Sunshine]

I think 7 is a lefty dude - airfence on the right hand side.. by the corner station. the really slick corner - some great pics of a silver bike slamming that air fence from the 1st.

it is...but it isn't a sweeper. turn 2 and 9 are sweepers. Turn 8 could be a sweeper but not quite. turn 7 is more of a hard kink.

[AndrewN]

ahh.. well i guess i need to work on my lingo.. among other things.

[justintime2]

Wreck happened here! :)

[justintime2]

Turn #6 is at the bottom of the hill (see pic below) on the back side. It is turn #7 and a left hander. :)
Turn 7 left hand sweeper? I thought turn 7 was at the bottom of the hill on the backside. I beleive the only left hand sweepers are 2 and 9.

[justintime2]

I wouldn't say it's a hard kink. If your using all your speed you will drift out and up to the high side of the track making it somewhere in between a sweeper and a kink. :)
it is...but it isn't a sweeper. turn 2 and 9 are sweepers. Turn 8 could be a sweeper but not quite. turn 7 is more of a hard kink.

[justintime2]

Your absolutely right and if he wrecked the airfence or just before it is where he would have gone. :(
I think 7 is a lefty dude - airfence on the right hand side.. by the corner station. the really slick corner - some great pics of a silver bike slamming that air fence from the 1st.

[justintime2]

False nuetrals can happen between any gear. That's why it's called a "false neutral", because you aren't actually in neutral but the transmission is free spooling between gears. :)
Ok so I was thinking about this last night ( no I don't love you) and ethier i'm missing something or something doens't add up! So you had sixth pinned into turn 1. Then you down shifted twice and ended up in a "false netural"? :confused:.

Now I don't know what your gearing and stuff like that is but T2 is a third gear corner I thought so how the heck did you end up in netural only shifting down twice from sixth gear! I wonder if your tranny or something isn't having problems. I've NEVER heard of anything like that.

[AndrewN]

Maybe i'm a complete idiot, but that map that shows 3a and 3b, but i think 3b is actualy turn 4 and the bus stop doesn't really count as a turn.... so i think turn 8 is really turn 9, and turn 6 is really turn 7.....up the hill... slap me if i'm wrong but thats how i thought it was...???? I know thats the map from Pacific's site, but I just hear most people talk about it different. Like i said.. maybe i'm wrong.. probably.

[AndrewN]

Ok.. the bus stop counts.. but i dont' think the shute does. Here is a map of the turns of how most people see it. It's off of the 2-Fast web site.

http://www.2-fast.org/images/PR-2002-Aerial.jpg

sorry for the size

[justintime2]

Be nice to know for sure as I was going directly off of PR's website under the road racing page showing the motorcycles. ???

[AndrewN]

Like I said.. those are the 'official' turns off Pacific's web site, but i think it's mostly for the 4 wheel racers. I think if you ask any of the bike racers, this is the set up that is usually used in conversations. Hense all the confusion about T7 and T8 being sweepers or not sweepers.. partial sweepers or kinks.. etc.

[Hypnotiq]

3a and 3b pertain to when CARS run the track.

Motorcycle is known as 3 and 4. :)

[justintime2]

Nice!

[Robbie]

I know that a Flase Netural can happen between any gear. I just have only experinaced into T3 going into second. I would be courious to learn how often people go into a false netural coming down from 6th gear.Just sounds weird to me, but then again i'm kinda weird! :D

On another note I am glad everyone was ok in both situations. It's cool to see everyone sharing info and learning from each other! I will be running in Portland at the end of the month! Hope to see some of you down there!

[tarheel]

Wreck happened here! :)

Wrong map dude. Turn 7 is at the bottom of the hill (call it whatever you want), turn 8 is at the top...3b is considered turn 4, and the death chute is not numbered. Check your program from the opening weekend, it has an accurate numbering of the turns on it. Another good resource in Adrenaline Freaks and 2-Fast. And every track ride around I have done with track days is consistent to turn 7 being at the bottom of the hill.

Thanks

[tarheel]

Turn #6 is at the bottom of the hill (see pic below) on the back side. It is turn #7 and a left hander. :)

I think that the cars must number them differently or something....And yes I do realize it is a left...just not a sweeper.

[Robbie]

I think that the cars must number them differently or something....And yes I do realize it is a left...just not a sweeper.

I'm going to have to side with tarheel on this one guys. I"ve been coming to the track for 2 years now watching my bro race. All racers call thatTurn 7. If you take the right line you should come up the inside and swing outside. Heck I try to go over the white line to set me up for 8 at the top of the hill. The last thing you want to do is dive low into 8. You will end up in the air fence for sure. When you crest the hill you can see all the numbers for the 1/4 strip. Mike Sullivan told us in his class you want to hit right above the 3. Any lower and it gets choppy. Just like the inside of 2!

[justintime2]

Yeah I was going off what was posted on PR's site and there is nothing on WMRRA's site that calls out a different numbering scheme. It sounds like from the last few posts though that the motorcycles do use a different set-up. Kind of weird that WMRRA doesn't show any of that on their site, or at least I couldn't find it. :(
Is spokane numbered any different than what they list?

[justintime2]

Actually I just checked their site and I don't even see any thing about the track listed. They don't even show WMRRA on their schedule. :(

[timk]

They don't even show WMRRA on their schedule. :(
If you go to the "Grand Prix" section of their site and check the schedule there, you'll see the WMRRA dates. (Kinda lame, I know...)

Kind of weird that WMRRA doesn't show any of that on their site, or at least I couldn't find it.
I guess I should get copies of the track maps used in the WMRRA race day programs (which have the turns numbered by what we call them), and add those to the page at http://www.wmrra.com/tracksinfo.html

And please, any time you go to the WMRRA website looking for some useful info and can't find it -- send me email about it (webmaster@wmrra.com). I've tried to guess what info racers & fans want on the website, but obviously I can't guess everything. If there's a good reason the info you're looking for isn't there, I'll tell you why. But usually it's just because it never occured to me. Like in this case, I had no idea that the car guys used a different corner numbering scheme and that that scheme was on the PR website causing this kind of confusion for our novices.

[Mr Sunshine]

I wouldn't say it's a hard kink. If your using all your speed you will drift out and up to the high side of the track making it somewhere in between a sweeper and a kink. :)


I consider it a hard kink due to the entry into the corner and having to throw it down quickly. but you are right...it isn't the bus stop. :)

[justintime2]

Cool, Thanks! :)
If you go to the "Grand Prix" section of their site and check the schedule there, you'll see the WMRRA dates. (Kinda lame, I know...)


I guess I should get copies of the track maps used in the WMRRA race day programs (which have the turns numbered by what we call them), and add those to the page at http://www.wmrra.com/tracksinfo.html

And please, any time you go to the WMRRA website looking for some useful info and can't find it -- send me email about it (webmaster@wmrra.com). I've tried to guess what info racers & fans want on the website, but obviously I can't guess everything. If there's a good reason the info you're looking for isn't there, I'll tell you why. But usually it's just because it never occured to me. Like in this case, I had no idea that the car guys used a different corner numbering scheme and that that scheme was on the PR website causing this kind of confusion for our novices.

[justintime2]

Alright, now that I know what corner it actually is I changed the post title and description so it's right. :)

[tarheel]

hehehe...everybody's an expert huh? I only said something cause maybe the guy who hit you read this and thought, hey, I didn't hit nobody in 7. So maybe now he will fess up.

[justintime2]

Fess up time!!! Bueler, Bueler?

[justintime2]

hehehe...everybody's an expert huh?
I didn't say this somewhere did I?

[Robbie]

Oh and on a side note T2 is def a third gear corner. You would have to be geared WAY down to go into T2 in 4th. If that was the case then you would pin 6th too fast in the strait.

[tarheel]

Oh and on a side note T2 is def a third gear corner. You would have to be geared WAY down to go into T2 in 4th. If that was the case then you would pin 6th too fast in the strait.

Definitely 3rd gear for me in T2....(2003 ZX6R/636)

[Robbie]

T2 a 3rd gear corner? I've always learned it as a 4th gear corner. Um...interesting.

I know my F4i loves to hit a false neutral on my up shift into 6th gear. If I don't do it just right, it looses it.

Remember a false neutral is when you should be in a particular gear but the tranny doesn't click into it and you are stuck between gears. It doesn't mean you went into the neutral position of your gear box.

Yeah I was just reponding to this! Even with stock gearing 4th would be even worse coming out of T2. Also i'm still having problems understanding all these false netural's going into 6th or down from 6th. I think something might be wrong with the tranny's. Maybe there lose or something. I've NEVER had an experiance like that. I can see when going into T3 accidentally shifting down one too many putting you into a false netural! But being so high in the gear box why would it slide into netural? :confused: Especailly when it's placed between first and second. Can someone awnser this for me!

I know I stated before it can happen at anytime, but I take back that statement now :D ! Just doesn't make sense!!

[Mr Sunshine]

Yeah I was just reponding to this! Even with stock gearing 4th would be even worse coming out of T2. Also i'm still having problems understanding all these false netural's going into 6th or down from 6th. I think something might be wrong with the tranny's. Maybe there lose or something. I've NEVER had an experiance like that. I can see when going into T3 accidentally shifting down one too many putting you into a false netural! But being so high in the gear box why would it slide into netural? :confused: Especailly when it's placed between first and second. Can someone awnser this for me!

I know I stated before it can happen at anytime, but I take back that statement now :D ! Just doesn't make sense!!

For me I am shifting it 6th (early though) right after the kink. I have enough going on at that time that I am pretty sure I am getting lazy on the shift lever.

And this weekend I'll give turn 2 in 3rd a shot....I'm still not really used to reving the piss out of my bike so sometimes I think I'm at almost redline and look down and i'm at 10k rpm. go figure.

[Robbie]

Yeah if you come from riding street bikes where you NEVER run at high rpms everywhere it's hard to get used to having the bike reved up all the time. It took me a while to get used to.

Def try 3rd going threw T2, I think you will find that coming out of the corner you have WAY more power running into T3. I shift up into 4th going down the hill. But someone needs to explain this damn false netural thing at high gears. Doesn't add up! :confused:

[justintime2]

False neutral can happen between any gear. It's called a false neutral because it's not actually the neutral detent between 1 and 2nd but it has the same effect because your not driving the gears. The transmission just gets stuck between gears so it isn't engaged with the one below or above it "false neutral".

It's a reality without doubt and can be caused by a number of things, lazy shifts, bent or worn shift forks, etc. :)

[Mr Sunshine]

Yeah if you come from riding street bikes where you NEVER run at high rpms everywhere it's hard to get used to having the bike reved up all the time. It took me a while to get used to.

Def try 3rd going threw T2, I think you will find that coming out of the corner you have WAY more power running into T3. I shift up into 4th going down the hill. But someone needs to explain this damn false netural thing at high gears. Doesn't add up! :confused:

We'll I did 8 or so track days last year with this bike. But I think part of the problem is I still ride on the street. But that is either on a '01 GSX-R1000 or a '04 BMW R1150RT. Both of them you really don't need to rev on the street. With the GSXR I'm way pass legal in 1st at those RPMs and on the BMW it redlines at 7200rpm.

[Robbie]

False neutral can happen between any gear. It's called a false neutral because it's not actually the neutral detent between 1 and 2nd but it has the same effect because your not driving the gears. The transmission just gets stuck between gears so it isn't engaged with the one below or above it "false neutral".

It's a reality without doubt and can be caused by a number of things, lazy shifts, bent or worn shift forks, etc. :)

Huh! I've just never heard of anything happening at high gears. I would say this is more probable to happen with worn shift forks ect... But then again I'm no pro ethier! :rolleyes: