don't like the rules? Change 'em!! [Archive]

Lauralynne

06-30-2007, 09:06 PM

I'd like to propose a rule change so that xxxx tard tech inspector can stop being a prick.

The new bikes tail sections are simply STUPID small and i'd like to allow SINGLE numbers on the top of tail. We tried on my own personal R6 at OMRRA and at FIRST the board/scorer's were like "ohh...single number" but by end of day they ALL said "wow, its actually easier to see"

Honestly folks, me havin to wedge in 6 7" numbers on a 2006+R6 or other bike s tail is dumb...UPDATE the rules to match the bikes please..

thanks to allister who rocks by the way for at least calming me down!

the rules don't state that you have to put the numbers on the tail section, only that they have to be visible from the side. The new bikes with the teeny tiny tail sections still have plenty of real estate visible from the side. So put your number plates on the side fairings. Pretty simple actually.

Now D clips - THAT'S the real issue!! ;)

pappawheelie

07-01-2007, 09:27 AM

First of all, calling out the Lead tech inspector as a prick on a public forum, will get you in trouble. I'd just assume not read some of your useless dribble like seen in the past on the OMRRA forums.
Second of all,Eric,since you can write I have to assume you can read! That being said, Didnt the rule book have the "number plate rule" witten in it before you built your bikes?

pscook

07-01-2007, 11:47 AM

Eric-

The rulebook allows 6" numbers. Would that help?

Ed Who?

07-01-2007, 11:56 AM

hey pappa, sorry im too honest. That guy pissed off/made OVER 4 guys from OMRRA this year ALONE not want to come back! Wanna know the story??

I didnt MAKE the R6...yamaha did! Im not gonna put a number plate like louie has cause i dont like the look....HOWEVER i brought my bikes to WMRRA 2nd round...the head tech guy went over the entire bikes..BOTH of them...and PASSED THEM! Then the guy walks up to me as im warming up the bikes ONLY 1 MIN BEFORE THE FIRST RACE and THROWS the rule book in my face! NO...not showed me...he put the damn thing within 2" of my nose out of nowhere! Several ppl saw it and were amazed...he then spouts out instantly "HEY YOUR BIKE IS ILLEGAL...READ THE RULE BOOK ON THE NUMBERS" after pausing for a second and thinking best not to knock his head off for this act of stupidity i go "umm..you passed these bikes, and your the HEAD tech guy..shouldn't you know the rules?" He then got all pissy! I walked off since a few years ago i wouldnt have! and decided to ask a few officials what i should do isince we now had 1min to 'fix' a problem the head tech guy passed and then later brought up. As i left this tech guys EXACT WORDS (i can give the board all 5 members that heard him) said "that guy(me) better shut up or ill pop him in the mouth and take his tech stickers" One of my crew Jay said "yeah..like to see you pop him in mouth" Now, im only telling this cause i want the ENTIRE story out there!

I changed the # plates after (george??) the scorer came over and POLITELY explained why/what it needed....no problem, i did so. I later found allister, and calmly expressed my concern with the WAY he approached it. Thats all. I have NO problem with that being the rule. My PROBLEM was with this neo nazi power monger pony tailer throwing a rule book in someone face, then saying they were gonna "pop me in the mouth' (which he can anytime...tell me where to meet) Allister was VERY helpful and polite and appriciated my input, only to inform me OTHERS HAVE HAD ISSUE WITH HIM TOO!

One said guy is a TOP OMRRA board guy and honestly the nicest guy in the pits, omrra and wmrra, who got tech'd by this same guy...only to half way back to his pits have the SAME guy yank his tech sticker off! The racer was like "what the hell..you just tech'd me???" the tech guy then said 'you dont have a wmrra decal on the front of your bike' the racer goes "umm..ok, i didnt know, but couldnt you just tell me to go get one after i put the biek on its stand?" the tech guy walked off! This racer had to go back to pits, then walk to reg. for a decal, back to pits, then back thru tech. Hangin in the pits that weekend i heard from NO LESS THAN 20 other wmrra racers that have had personality issues with this head tech guy!

So "pappawheelie" please dont act like your offended. Sorry honesty is so hard to swallow for some. If folks like this treat those that SUPPORT the club in MANY ways (hey pappa where were you when i was the ONLY shop/vendor/tuner at the track for years??) I have tried VERY hard over the years to get more omrra racers to come up to wmrra because for the most part i love the wmrra events, great atmoshpere..

So, YES. I will write up and get ALOT of support for a single digit rear plate being allowed on certain bikes this off season per the wmrra charter/rules.

have a great day. Ill see ya in spokane...maybe ill bring scissors.

Ed Who?

07-01-2007, 11:58 AM

Eric-

The rulebook allows 6" numbers. Would that help?

that is what we did. Just very hard to fit 3 digit numbers per side, thats all. Like i said, we are doing what allister and the scorer politely asked us to do, run dual side tail #'s. I am just saying as bikes change, the rules should and usually do as well. If you can see a shot of say gulin at omrra with a single 12" top # it is MUCH easier to see htan the wmrra rounds where he had 3 6" #'s wedged in. thanks thou...like i said, we'll save it for 2008.

pappawheelie

07-01-2007, 01:04 PM

Sounds like you are on the right approach at the change.

As for offense, Eric, I didnt take any. I actually have found allot of humor in your posts on the lists in the past. The only thing I would hope from you, if you want a change is to take a bit more of a diplomatic approach at the change you want to put in place.

I think over the years I know you somewhat well. If you didnt think you'd stir a bit of shit it wouldnt be fun . I can relate.

Louie

Ed Who?

07-01-2007, 05:09 PM

i know louie, im trying..heck I WALKED away from this guy. My point, in my typicall over the top fashion, is that IMO wmrra is a MUCH FUNNER (yes im using funner) club! The board/members interact better, the in pit atmosphere is more laid back and generally...more fun. which imo is what club racing is all about! This ONE guy acted like a TOTAL power tripping disrespectful azxhole. EVERYONE else on the board/volunteers, etc have been awesome. I was not up at wmrra much in 2006 due to moving shop locations and various other reasons and apart from this one guy, had a total blast and in fact i shut my entire shop down the last spokane round and brought my entire crew to spokane since 2 of them had never been and they always heard how FUN wmrra/spokane is...so we made a road trip out of it.....i chose another tech guy to go over our bikes (yes with 6 6" numbers crammed on it even)

I realize that no company, group, what have you likes guys like me and how i approach things at times, however if i hear the SAME things from over 20 racers about him, dont you think its something the club should look into? I dont blame the others for publicly stating thier issues with him, thats my job, since everyone expects me to be 100% honest and upfront. Its bit me in the past for being 100% open and honest, but at least i can sleep at night knowing i was so.

Off soap box. Im sure the powers that be have/are reading this and will do whats right for the ENTIRE club.

Mr Sunshine

07-01-2007, 07:45 PM

Quitcher bitchin' and write up your version of what you think the rules should be. :D

I did. :)

BTW: The "what has been proposed" link isn't real time. I have to wait for a reply from Bill the 2nd VP essentially "approving" the submission before I can post it. But I'll get them posted ASAP.

Lauralynne

07-01-2007, 08:12 PM

Im not gonna put a number plate like louie has cause i dont like the look....

That's not my bike or my number plate - just an example. But I understand you point of consistent teching and talking to club members with respect regardless of your "title" in the club.

orangeblurr

07-01-2007, 09:39 PM

Well here's my two cents. I'm all for the single number plate, cause I had to cram on my GSXR too. Probably not as hard as you, but it still was a pain.

theJrod

07-02-2007, 07:54 AM

Well here's my two cents. I'm all for the single number plate, cause I had to cram on my GSXR too. Probably not as hard as you, but it still was a pain.+1 Even my 6" numbers were too wide - I had to cut them down with scissors.

D_Rail

07-02-2007, 07:54 AM

I'd like to propose a rule change so that xxxx tard tech inspector can stop being a pxxxx.

The new bikes tail sections are simply STUPID small and i'd like to allow SINGLE numbers on the top of tail. We tried on my own personal R6 at OMRRA and at FIRST the board/scorer's were like "ohh...single number" but by end of day they ALL said "wow, its actually easier to see"

Honestly folks, me havin to wedge in 6 7" numbers on a 2006+R6 or other bike s tail is dumb...UPDATE the rules to match the bikes please..

thanks to allister who rocks by the way for at least calming me down! +1 to that change. I haven't yet had to deal with putting my numbers on my GSXR's tail, partly because I still haven't gotten my novice number, but it doesn't seem like an easy task! I feel sorry for peeps with the 06-07 R6!

Ed Who?

07-02-2007, 05:11 PM

the 2007+ CBR600RR and 2007 ZX6 are JUST as bad (if not worse)....all i was trying to say is "maybe we as a club can look into it? try it out?, etc"

Mr Sunshine

07-02-2007, 05:19 PM

the 2007+ CBR600RR and 2007 ZX6 are JUST as bad (if not worse)....all i was trying to say is "maybe we as a club can look into it? try it out?, etc"

Eric...Eric...Eric...I would have thought that by now you would have understood....change = bad.

Are you a current WMRRA member? If not I would get one of your riders who is to submit a rule change proposal.

Mr Sunshine

07-02-2007, 05:20 PM

the rules don't state that you have to put the numbers on the tail section, only that they have to be visible from the side. The new bikes with the teeny tiny tail sections still have plenty of real estate visible from the side. So put your number plates on the side fairings. Pretty simple actually.

Now D clips - THAT'S the real issue!! ;)

Even though that is a really good idea on how to follow the rules that space is valible advertising space for sponsorships.

Lauralynne

07-02-2007, 07:11 PM

Even though that is a really good idea on how to follow the rules that space is valible advertising space for sponsorships.

But now you'll have a whole tail section for sponsorship stickers! If it's good enough for visible numbers, then it's good enough for sponsors, right!

(And Chris - are you arguing about a clear concise rule? :))
(horse? I never saw a horse...what's this puddle?)

Hypnotiq

07-02-2007, 07:50 PM

Mr Sunshine

07-02-2007, 08:24 PM

And Chris - are you arguing about a clear concise rule? :)

Nope not for this one as I personally feel the rule is very straight forward and easy to understand.

And if you want to see the number thread...you know where to look. :)

BTW: Did you know our rules don't let you run aftermarket rearsets in SS? :p

Mr Sunshine

07-02-2007, 08:29 PM

Let the silly season begin. :)

Let me remind you guys, the more info and data you put in your rule change proposal, the better it can be represented at the rule chnage meeting.

This is your warning now. The DEADLINE for this year, is October 1st for rule change proposals.

How about just letting those people who made rule change proposals actually observe the meeting and be on hand to provide more information if requested by the committee? Um...there is a thought....do stuff in front of people and not behind closed doors.

And um...actually...the deadline (if there is to be one) is technically set by the next 2nd VP (2008) even though the current 2nd VP has indicated that Oct. 1st is the dead line.

Lauralynne

07-02-2007, 08:32 PM

Nope not for this one as I personally feel the rule is very straight forward and easy to understand.

And if you want to see the number thread...you know where to look. :)

BTW: Did you know our rules don't let you run aftermarket rearsets in SS? :p

I'm in Novice - I can run nearly anything except NOS.

Lauralynne

07-02-2007, 08:35 PM

BTW: Did you know our rules don't let you run aftermarket rearsets in SS? :p

Whatchoo talkin' bout Willis??
Section P - line 5 - subline g

"Controls: Brake lever, clutch lever, clutch perch, footrests, shift rod, gear shift lever, rear brake lever and throttle tube may be relocated or replaced without restriction. If sharp edges protrude, footrests must be covered with 1/8th inch rubber or soft plastic."

Mr Sunshine

07-02-2007, 08:35 PM

I'm in Novice - I can run nearly anything except NOS.

Actually I don't see any restriction as to what a novice can run. NOS is allowed in Formula Ultra so best I can figure, if you want to run NOS, go for it. Actually that would be cool to see...too bad it would likely dynamite your SV motor really quickly. :rofl:

Mr Sunshine

07-02-2007, 08:39 PM

Whatchoo talkin' bout Willis??
Section P - line 5 - subline g

"Controls: Brake lever, clutch lever, clutch perch, footrests, shift rod, gear shift lever, rear brake lever and throttle tube may be relocated or replaced without restriction. If sharp edges protrude, footrests must be covered with 1/8th inch rubber or soft plastic."

A foot rest is the OEM term for what we call "foot pegs". Just the peg portion and not the brackets it is attached to. This means you can't replace the brackets which the rest of the aftermarket rearsets are connected to. Since we have that note that says you can't do it unless it says you can do it you are SOL.

For a good example to read on how the rule could be modified to allow aftermarket rearset take a look at the WERA rule on the subject. WERA actually has a pretty good rule book from what I can see and its not a "million" pages that everyone is worried that our rule book would be.

http://www.wera.com/pages/rulebook.htm
Chapter 9.4.D

Rider footpegs and brackets may be changed or modified.

The statement about the brackets is the clincher to letting you use aftermarket rearsets in WERA.

pappawheelie

07-02-2007, 09:15 PM

Whatever.

Ed Who?

07-02-2007, 09:18 PM

How about just letting those people who made rule change proposals actually observe the meeting and be on hand to provide more information if requested by the committee? Um...there is a thought....do stuff in front of people and not behind closed doors.

And um...actually...the deadline (if there is to be one) is technically set by the next 2nd VP (2008) even though the current 2nd VP has indicated that Oct. 1st is the dead line.

WAIT? the rule commitee for WMRRA is CLOSED?? WTF? in OMRRA the meetings are open for all that want (ok, so only 3 or 4 show up!) to attend and input...i certainly hope wmrra welcomes its members/supporters ideas and opinions just as much..

Lauralynne

07-02-2007, 09:26 PM

WAIT? the rule commitee for WMRRA is CLOSED?? WTF? in OMRRA the meetings are open for all that want (ok, so only 3 or 4 show up!) to attend and input...i certainly hope wmrra welcomes its members/supporters ideas and opinions just as much..

Yes - closed. The reasoning is that it's already an 8+ hour meeting - more voices = longer meeting. Ideally you voice your opinoin to your rider rep and your rider rep will let your voice be heard.

Ed Who?

07-02-2007, 09:35 PM

WOW! Not good IMO...why only ONE meeting? Why not like OMRRA where they have 2-4 meetings, simple (sometimes light..sometimes heated) at a place (my shop, hooters, someones place, etc) and usually 1-3hrs max....then the rules commitee takes all the info/etc and wallaa...there ya go

Lauralynne

07-02-2007, 09:38 PM

Mr Sunshine

07-02-2007, 09:41 PM

WAIT? the rule commitee for WMRRA is CLOSED?? WTF? in OMRRA the meetings are open for all that want (ok, so only 3 or 4 show up!) to attend and input...i certainly hope wmrra welcomes its members/supporters ideas and opinions just as much..

Yup the WMRRA Exec Board meeting is closed and the rule committee meeting has traditionally been closed.

Mr Sunshine

07-02-2007, 09:45 PM

Sumbit a rule change - I'm with you on this one

Go read the rule book on this matter. A rule change isn't what needs to happen. The bylaws of the club would have to be changed (of which the general membership has no power to pose new by laws) OR you would need a 2nd VP who is willing to have the general membership in attendance to the rule committee meeting(s).

Article 3. Officers.

D. The second vice president is in charge of updating the rulebook. The second vice president shall appoint a rules committee. The rules committee may review and consider all proposals made pursuant to the rules. In the course of its consideration of the rules proposal or at any other time, the rules committee may adopt, amend, blueline or revise any proposal that the rules committee, in its discretion, deems appropriate. The rules committee may also, on its own motion, draft, consider and adopt any rules that the rules committee in its discretion deems appropriate. The second vice president will appoint the race director, referee, course marshal, corner captain, chief technical inspector, airfence coordinator, radio control and starters. The race director will be in charge of the race day, including the pit area, security, crowd control, medical follow up of injured riders (i.e. make sure their pits are taken care of, people notified, etc.). Absent a conflict of interest, the second vice president shall be a voting member of the Appeals Board.

kneedragger

07-02-2007, 10:30 PM

Man oh man does this club need some changes or what...These bylaws where done when? Who was president? How much was a gallon of gas? it had to be less the $1... If this club doesn't come to grips with its members, there may not be much left for folks to want to be a part of... Change is good people...Get over it....

kneedragger

07-02-2007, 10:32 PM

Ex Presidente

07-03-2007, 06:36 AM

Hypnotiq

07-03-2007, 07:35 AM

Another thing...clubs across the US are adapting to new rules, new bylaws that actually allow the members to have a say...not a select group of individuals. Its time, I'm just curious to see how fast its gonna get cabbashed... :D We'll see what happens....

Come on Mario, you know I love you bro but that is horseshit and you know it! How exactly do members not have a say in this club? Do you not get a chance at submitting rule changes? Yes. Do you not have the opportunity to tell your rider reps how you feel about proposed changes? Yes. The bottom line is though, had I not gone out of my way to go and contact other members about certain SS rule proposals, I would have only had a handful of people that sent me something and gave a flying leap.

To the point Luke made, I was in the meeting last year and there were several rule changes I was for but several SS riders had contacted me saying they did not want to see a particular rule change so its my duty to vote what the riders I represent want, not necessairly what I want. I even said so when I voted against my own rule proposal.

It's pretty simple. If you want something changed, submit a rule proposal with relevant data and facts. The appopriate representative will contact you if they need more info on the matter. They will represent your proposal at the meeting and present all the data/facts. They will vote based on the feedback they received from the other riders they represent. If you see a rule proposal you are FOR or AGAINST, let the representative know, so they can properly represent the ridership.

Ed Who?

07-03-2007, 07:45 AM

Let me see if I can post on this without coming off like an ass....
The meetings are closed because if the meeting was open nothing would get done. Every rule change discussion would get rat holed and given the amount of rule change proposals you might get through 5 or so before it had to be called a night or day. This is why we have rider reps, so that you/we have a say. The rules are never secret and they are posted for all to look at once approved by the 2nd VP. Now if you have an opion on a specific rule than let your Rider Rep know. We have a fantastic group of Rider Reps that actually are soliciting opions from racers. And having attended the Rules Committee Metting last year, I heard something to the affect: "My contingent does or does not like this rule and therefore I will vote for or against" this was coming from the rider reps. These guys are doing a great job and are making sure that our voices are being heard at the meetings.

luke, you and i are friends..but im having hard time finding my :bs flag. Honestly, to NOT have members...who the club is comprised of able to attend and put in thier $.02 is not good IMO...now back to my dyno room i go...

Mr Sunshine

07-03-2007, 07:53 AM

Let me see if I can post on this without coming off like an ass....
The meetings are closed because if the meeting was open nothing would get done. Every rule change discussion would get rat holed and given the amount of rule change proposals you might get through 5 or so before it had to be called a night or day. This is why we have rider reps, so that you/we have a say. The rules are never secret and they are posted for all to look at once approved by the 2nd VP. Now if you have an opion on a specific rule than let your Rider Rep know. We have a fantastic group of Rider Reps that actually are soliciting opions from racers. And having attended the Rules Committee Metting last year, I heard something to the affect: "My contingent does or does not like this rule and therefore I will vote for or against" this was coming from the rider reps. These guys are doing a great job and are making sure that our voices are being heard at the meetings.

I've said this before. There are ways to have a meeting such as the rule committee meeting with the general membership there and have the meeting go no longer than normal.

Its called the members are observers and unless explicity asked by a comittee member to speak they shall make no interruptions. You get your warning walking in and at any moment you may be booted if you are causing a distraction. It is painless and provides for a forum that allows members to feel more part of the process.

No matter how good the Secretary is at taking notes, 95% of what goes on in the meeting is missed. Some of us just might like to have a better understanding of that 95% which would provide useful insights to how the club is run.

kneedragger

07-03-2007, 08:02 AM

First of all Nico...you are a hoser! :D Good, now that that is off my chest...here is my response...

Having been a member of this club for quite some time now, I have seen a lot of "horse shit" from club officials in my time. Not saying that this is what is going on with our official now, but look at what happened with the Young Guns class for example! Look at how many people showed up to the meetings that we had regarding both the YG class and the 1098 rules. Yes, the rules were not put in on time and I will not disagree there. But when the body of the club showed the e-board and the Board members that they wanted something done and voted on, it was brushed aside (1098 rules). Then, the members and eboard agreed to have the Young Guns class and it seemed was a great turning point for the club as it looked to want to embraze (sp) the future by allowing young up-and-coming kids to begin their progress into the roadracing world of real bikes. I then got approval to send out Press Releases to all of the major Magazines to announce to the world that WMRRA can and is willing to look to the future only to have everything get once again brushed aside as if nothing happened. And all of this after a total of 10 families went out and spent Thousand$$$ to get their kids into this class and not only that, but the YG class would have been one of the big classes out there than what has been seen at other clubs accross the US.

That is why you will see new rule proposals and some other proposals from me and others in the club this early so that we can once and for all see if this club is willing to listen to its members. The rider reps are not the issue here, so please make sure that you understand that. Also, there are some of you out there that are thinking "if you wnat change, the volunteer", well, I was the Chief Tech inspector for 3 years and worked corners for even longer until I felt that no matter what I did, nothing was going to change. However, I'm willing to give it one more try, especially since my son is now racing, I want to be as involved as possible.

To the race day staff, you guys ROCK! a huge THANK YOU to all corner workers. Again, its time to see where this club stands, lets see if we can make some noise and get this club back to being the best club in the US, regardless of our size!

Cheers,

Mario Alvarez
WMRRA 183

Ex Presidente

07-03-2007, 08:15 AM

luke, you and i are friends..but im having hard time finding my :bs flag. Honestly, to NOT have members...who the club is comprised of able to attend and put in thier $.02 is not good IMO...now back to my dyno room i go...

Wait don't go back to the Dyno room....I haven't replied yet! :lol:

Bullshit or not this how it is and has been for a long time. Putting in your .02 can still happen via the Reps. I'll admit, I could've done a better job as SS Rep when I was SS Rep by soliciting opinions from my contingent, but at the end of the day I firmly believe that absolutley nothing would get done if you had an open rules committee meeting, warning or not.

Allister Squid #121

07-03-2007, 09:42 AM

First of all Nico...you are a hoser!

Look at how many people showed up to the meetings that we had regarding both the YG class and the 1098 rules.

But when the body of the club showed the e-board and the Board members that they wanted something done and voted on, it was brushed aside (1098 rules).

Then, the members and eboard agreed to have the Young Guns class.

I then got approval to send out Press Releases to all of the major Magazines to announce to the world that WMRRA can and is willing to look to the future only to have everything get once again brushed aside as if nothing happened. And all of this after a total of 10 families went out and spent Thousand$$$ to get their kids into this class.

That is why you will see new rule proposals and some other proposals from me and others in the club this early so that we can once and for all see if this club is willing to listen to its members.

Mario Alvarez
WMRRA 183

Mario, for the record I feel the need to respond to this post. Even if its ancient history.

you mis-represent the actual sequence, actions and rulings.

The CLERALY, UNDENIABLEY, OUT OF ORDER, POST DATE rule change proposal for the 848cc and 1098cc twins discussion was allowed by me.

Due to some special circumstances I felt the rules warranted special consideration. I asked the interested parties to come to the closed meeting and present their position.

This was done. The E-Board discussed this at length and made a decsion to deny scored entry of these machines in the requested classes.

The interested parties decided to try to circumvent the rule book, and e-board and tried an end run. After ALOT of time, effort, and impartial investigation (ALOT!!!) I ultimately ruled (again) that the rule changes and subsequent manuevers were out of order.

However, a reasonable compromise was offered to allow the 848cc a race by race, non-scored entry into classes it is not strictly legal for in accordance with the 2007 rule book. This was the best we could do with the out of order request

This was not an emotional or reactionary ruling. This was strictly based upon the facts, the rules and the by-laws of WMRRA. I contacted attorneys to understand my position, the riderships and the e-boards authority. I spent an inordinate amount of time researching this ruling.

The net effect of the ruling? none. We have 1 racer with 848cc twins (and a comprise allowing the opportunity to race them in additional classes other than those stricltly allowed by the 2007 rule book) and mabye 4-5 1098cc Twins racing in the 3 classes they were ALREADY legal in.

"The Body of the CLUB" mentioned was in fact about 30 riders. For comparison we have approximatley 400 members.

Regarding the "Young Guns Exhibition heats" I was, and still consider myself advocate of this event. I helped put together the proposed program against alot of resistance.

However, there were several MUTUALLY AGREED criteria that were to be met prior to the events. The fact is, the criteria were never met. The reason the Young Guns are not running has nothing to do with WMRRA, its board or its members.

kneedragger

07-03-2007, 10:22 AM

[QUOTE=Allister Squid #121;21130]Mario, for the record I feel the need to respond to this post. Even if its ancient history.

The fact is, the criteria were never met. The reason the Young Guns are not running has nothing to do with WMRRA, its board or its members./QUOTE]

I call bs on this and you know it! you and I both know that certain people kept coming up with bullshit issues with the YG's class which made it damn near impossible for it to get off the ground, but what ever... The season is all but over and we can only look at next year to see if anything will be done with the YGs...

Your comment of "However, within my authority I will not allow the club to be ruled by the "tyrranny of the minority" or special interests that benefit one or two members" is rather comical to me as you are basically telling me and the rest of the club members that it really doesn't matter if you show up to a meeting as even if something is put to a vote, we have no friggin say....AND that is what many of us have such a huge issue with and one of the main reasons that many of us want the bylaws to be changed. So, even if we get 100 members to show up to a meeting, all it takes is the board to override them just because they can...Sorry, but that just doesn't seem right to me... If companies ran their business with that type of mentality, its gonna be kindda hard for them to keep happy customers...

Again, like I said (and as others), we will see how things play out during the "silly season". I know that there are going to be lots of rule proposals as well as proposals to update/change the bylaws, but no matter what, it all comes down to a "minority" to decide wether we will be overridden or not, regardless on what gets voted on...so, only time will tell...

Allister Squid #121

07-03-2007, 05:16 PM

[QUOTE=Allister Squid #121;21130]I call bs on this and you know it!

I supported the young guns within the boundries we set. No BS.
I understand your particular interest in this issue.

Your comment of "However, within my authority I will not allow the club to be ruled by the "tyrranny of the minority" or special interests that benefit one or two members" is rather comical to me as you are basically telling me and the rest of the club members that it really doesn't matter if you show up to a meeting as even if something is put to a vote, we have no friggin say....

I disagree. Nobody within WMRRA can "break the rules so that they can then break the rules". This is what happened in te 1098 instance. I researched it, reviewed it and ruled on it. (as if I was the president or something...) The riders were heard. Clearly. The question was irregular.

To allow a small group of like minded members the ability to re-write the clubs constituition (by-laws) and rule book at will, will inevitably destroy this club.
I'm pretty sure it aint gonna happen. Can't do it at the US congress, can't do it at Microsoft (or any large corporation), can't do it here.

AND that is what many of us have such a huge issue with and one of the main reasons that many of us want the bylaws to be changed. So, even if we get 100 members to show up to a meeting, all it takes is the board to override them just because they can...

Thats why you elect them, to manage the club.

Sorry, but that just doesn't seem right to me... If companies ran their business with that type of mentality, its gonna be kindda hard for them to keep happy customers...

I run the club within the boundires defined by the by-laws and rule book.

Again, like I said (and as others), we will see how things play out during the "silly season". I know that there are going to be lots of rule proposals as well as proposals to update/change the bylaws, but no matter what, it all comes down to a "minority" to decide wether we will be overridden or not, regardless on what gets voted on...so, only time will tell...

The rules will all get fair and adequate consideration. As always.

If the current management doesn't satisfy you, remove them.

Alllister #121

kneedragger

07-03-2007, 05:42 PM

Allister, we'll just have to agree to disagree man. Like I said earlier...we'll see how things turn out and how they are handled. I look forward to doing everything I can to help make the 08 season an awesome one. If there is a need in the club, I would be more than happy to see if I can help. I'll give it one more try, lets see what happens...

Expect a "few" proposals from me in the next few weeks...

cheers,

mario

Speeddealer

07-17-2007, 09:49 PM

Mr Sunshine

07-17-2007, 10:00 PM

Not to get this back on track.....when are the new proposals popping up? I spent like three hours writing a paragraph ( I suck at it! ) for a new rule like months ago - give or take. I've seen only one so far

Please don't tell me proposals are getting lost and/or flushed for stupidity!!

If you are submitting them via the online proposal form (which I see yours was) the process that is happening is they are emailed to Bill the 2nd VP for review. Once it passes whatever criteria he is using I am then told to post the rule change proposal. At which time I'll post them to the proposals page.

Blew-Smoke

07-18-2007, 07:40 AM

If you are submitting them via the online proposal form (which I see yours was) the process that is happening is they are emailed to Bill the 2nd VP for review. Once it passes whatever criteria he is using I am then told to post the rule change proposal. At which time I'll post them to the proposals page.
I posted one too via the online form last week, if it doesn't get posted then I take it it doesn't meet the 'criteria' :shrug:

Speeddealer

07-18-2007, 07:47 AM

Should users submitting proposals expect to be contacted? I think it would be a good idea to start getting the proposals out there ASAP so we can start getting feedback and refine the proposals, and also to keep duplicate and overlapping proposals down to a mininmum.

ewok

07-18-2007, 10:39 AM

This has been a great read. Fantastic debate. Less than normal name calling. And even that was in good taste. I agree with everyone.

regards
ed

341

07-18-2007, 04:01 PM

My personal opinion of why this club's rules committee should remain as a representative authority is to control the vocal few who claim to be the majority. With representatives of different classes voting on rules that don't directly affect them, there is some distance and perhaps some clarity that would get lost having the vocal minority in the meeting. If you have an opinion on a rule proposal, please please please let your representative know what it is. He will take all those opinions and decide how to vote. I personally gave my opinion to my rep last year on the proposed rules and he voted with my opinion on some and against on others. I have to trust that Nico voted what he felt was the representative vote.

The only other viable option (IMHO) is to put all the rules proposals to a vote by all the members. The probable outcome would be to have the rules made by the 10% (percentage pulled out of my ass) that voted the representatives to office. Troy341

Speeddealer

07-18-2007, 09:25 PM

Not online or meeting driven, howbout a vote ballot? WE could take it one step further Hmmm... only letting the riders that race in the class that the rule change affects be able to vote on it? It would take some research but, it sure would make sense!!
I'm sure not the only one that finds it strange for a Vintage guy to comment on a Supersport Tech. issue or vice versa.

We need to conentrate on saving racers budgets and keeping our rules in line with the other local and even national clubs. Not acting like a class is a Frickin sacred object not to be screwed with.

Either that or bring back the RZ cup rules... all you get to change are your (Spec)tires Baby!!

Lauralynne

07-18-2007, 10:15 PM

Ok people - back to reality.
You're asking for action from the general membership. We can't consistently get more than 15-20 members to a meeting every month and voting for club officers is pathetic (Chris, do you have access to the number of votes from the election last year?).
I doubt that we could come up with a vote from even 10% of the membership of this club.

On another note - why do the proposed rules have to be pre-approved before they're posted? Shouldn't everyone's voice get a chance to be heard? Post them up, let's dicuss, debate and debunk the rules people have in mind. The rules' committee can quickly shoot down the ones they deem frivolous or duplicates. But it seems to me that all the members should have access to see and hear what rules are being proposed, especially since they're the ones affected by them.

pappawheelie

07-18-2007, 10:16 PM

RZ cup! Oh those were the days.

Bias ply tires. Plugged cats. Tempermental jetting changes.

Mr Sunshine

07-19-2007, 06:36 AM

Ok people - back to reality.
You're asking for action from the general membership. We can't consistently get more than 15-20 members to a meeting every month and voting for club officers is pathetic (Chris, do you have access to the number of votes from the election last year?).

Frankly I don't see a problem. I know some people can't make the meetings due to their proxmity to the meeting location. Same with their time committements being some where else (work, family, picking up strange women, etc).

None of those are a problem that can't be dealt with in a simple manner like how we handle officer voting.

Since one thing I'm concerned with is how are other clubs run I'd be interested to find out how other clubs do their rule process and how it works for them. That way we could see if there is anything that can be learned from them.

As to the numbers from last year....the website might have them but it really would be something that the secertary should post up.

Mr Sunshine

07-24-2007, 06:53 AM

Ok I'm back guys and I had an email from Bill to post the rule changes that have been proposed so far. So they are up.

http://www.wmrra.com/proposals.html

Seehorn

07-24-2007, 01:27 PM

I feel dumber having read through this thread. May God have mercy on my soul.

Lauralynne

07-24-2007, 01:40 PM

I feel dumber having read through this thread. May God have mercy on my soul.

soul? What's this soul you speak of?

Mr Sunshine

07-24-2007, 03:13 PM

I feel dumber having read through this thread. May God have mercy on my soul.

why?

(filler)

pscook

07-24-2007, 03:56 PM

why?

(filler)

That is a good question, Chris. But before we ask why God should have mercy on anyones soul, we must first ask, "Does God really exist?".

If you have a tendency to believe in things happening out of your control, ie; Predetermined consequences and actions, then yes, God probably does exist, because in order to exist, you must have someone believe in your existence, physical or otherwise. However, if you believe that there can not be anything existing outside of your sphere of existence (Earth and the immediate planets, and the sun, too), then no, God can't exist, because nothing like that could exist outside of physical manifestations of a specific being (you, me, etc). God could not exist as a supernatural being, because he (or she) has to exist physically, to exist spiritually.

Moving to mercy, do you believe in a New Testament God, or the Old version? If you believe in the old version, you better get down and pray, because you are a sinner, straight up. If you choose the new, kinder gentler God, that has a long-haired, bearded, white dude as his physical manifestation, mercy has been shown, and you can get on with being yourself, and just assume that you are covered.

Wait, were you asking why Jeff feels dumber? That's just too deep for me.

I'm out.

Mr Sunshine

07-24-2007, 05:29 PM

That is a good question, Chris. But before we ask why God should have mercy on anyones soul, we must first ask, "Does God really exist?".

If you have a tendency to believe in things happening out of your control, ie; Predetermined consequences and actions, then yes, God probably does exist, because in order to exist, you must have someone believe in your existence, physical or otherwise. However, if you believe that there can not be anything existing outside of your sphere of existence (Earth and the immediate planets, and the sun, too), then no, God can't exist, because nothing like that could exist outside of physical manifestations of a specific being (you, me, etc). God could not exist as a supernatural being, because he (or she) has to exist physically, to exist spiritually.

Moving to mercy, do you believe in a New Testament God, or the Old version? If you believe in the old version, you better get down and pray, because you are a sinner, straight up. If you choose the new, kinder gentler God, that has a long-haired, bearded, white dude as his physical manifestation, mercy has been shown, and you can get on with being yourself, and just assume that you are covered.

Wait, were you asking why Jeff feels dumber? That's just too deep for me.

I'm out.

I subscribe to the theory that simplier is better. So the answer to "Why?" is "Why Not".

(yes my question was why does Jeff feel dumber? was it the hit the head?)