The true cost of crashing . . .

[Rubber Ducky]

I am finally getting back to normal after my T1 crash in Spokane on 5/26 (1st Heat novice race). The fractures are healing and the after-effects of the concussion have started settling down. I am back to work almost full time and I am thankful I don't have a job that involves manual labor or it would have taken me another few weeks.

I want to thank everyone in the club for your support, notes, e-mails, phone calls and personal comments. One does not realize how much this means until is put at the receiving end of such an outpour; thank you again it meant a LOT to me. :bigok:

That being said the bills are now trickling and . . . Holy Shit! In the shuffle of me being passed out for a few hours and the medical information did not making from the inside pocket of my leathers to the hands of the hospital administration are making it so that everything is coming straight to my address. There are no specific restrictions in my health insurance policy specifically identifying "Motorcycle Racing" but I felt some resistance from my health insurance when I asked about forwarding the invoices for payment. I have a call in to our company representative and, hopefully, this will get sorted out and I will be able to just send the invoices and they will pay for them. Frankly I never have given it a second thought and did not anticipate being in this situation so quickly . . . live and learn I guess.

However, in the spirit of being prepared for the worst, I would love to hear from some of the more expert racer, who had this or similar experiences (hopefully not too often) in the past and how you worked through the paper trail. Were most costs taken care of? Was it a complicated ordeal? What is your advice? and what would you do differently in the future?

I don't mind sharing the numbers, I think if we are in the business/passion of racing motorcycles we should be honest and knowledgeable about the possible consequences and related costs. My crash is probably going to cost about $25-30,000.00 in medical costs. Please note that I did not require any surgery and that my hospital stay was limited to approximately 6 hours in the Emergency Room. I was unconscious most of the time but this is the info I collected through all sources. As a side note know that this does not include: bike repairs, wages lost, work lost and other costs associated with what happened.

In spite of all of the above all I can think about at this point is:
"When am I going to be able to race again?" and "I hope I can heal and fix my bike be before the end of the season". The addiction is that bad!! :rofl:

Anyway, I would like to keep this as open as possible so maybe we can all learn something from this and how to act when "bad" things happen. If you have information and don't feel like you want to share them with everyone please send me a PM.

Thank you all in advance for your feedback and experiences.

[justintime2]

I'm in the same boat right now with the bills trickling in and it is shocking. Although I have faith the majority will be paid by insurance I won't be totally comfortable until the checks have been cut on my behalf. Thankfully my medical form did make it out of my pocket and I've been spared the first half of your sticker shock.

My total will probably be around $15,000 calculating things the same way you did and for roughly the same amount of time in the ER. I will let you know if i run into any snags that I can help with info on with my insurance and feel free to PM me if you figure something out as well. I have Group Health. :)

[Lauralynne]

racing is why I have secondary insurance that will - I checked - cover me even during racing. Anything my regular insurance fails to cover (copays, deductibles, missed work, etc) will all be covered by my secondary insurance. Especially important is the missed work coverage I carry through them - they pay me a percentage of my salary if I'm unable to work due to an accident.

I have yet to test the insurance but it makes me feel better about racing and the inherent risks.

[jwinn76]

YOU MEAN GROUP DEATH??? J/K glad both you guys are ok....

[diliracer]

racing is why I have secondary insurance that will - I checked - cover me even during racing. Anything my regular insurance fails to cover (copays, deductibles, missed work, etc) will all be covered by my secondary insurance. Especially important is the missed work coverage I carry through them - they pay me a percentage of my salary if I'm unable to work due to an accident.

I have yet to test the insurance but it makes me feel better about racing and the inherent risks.

Laura,

What has happened to Chris and Justin is something we are all concerned with and my best wishes go out to them both regarding all health and financial concerns associated with their incidents. Often we overlook the hassles that we can experience with our medical programs...at least I know I do.

What kind of "secondary" insurance did you acquire? Who did you get it from?

I have Regence BlueShield and called them in advance to make sure I was covered regarding racing accidents and they said "yes" as it is just club racing and I am not a pro making my primary wage with this sport. I have both short and long term disability through them but think the secondary insurance is a great idea.

[Mr Sunshine]

Laura,

What has happened to Chris and Justin is something we are all concerned with and my best wishes go out to them both regarding all health and financial concerns associated with their incidents. Often we overlook the hassles that we can experience with our medical programs...at least I know I do.

What kind of "secondary" insurance did you acquire? Who did you get it from?

I have Regence BlueShield and called them in advance to make sure I was covered regarding racing accidents and they said "yes" as it is just club racing and I am not a pro making my primary wage with this sport. I have both short and long term disability through them but think the secondary insurance is a great idea.

Like you I checked with my work's insurance policy before I started racing and was sure to get an offical "Yes" from them in writting.

I also ping a co-worker who was a racer and he relayed his experiences to me from the medical end and I was satisfied I am good to go (hurt myself...like that's good. :shrug: )

Everyone needs to make sure they have proper insurance and Chris's unfortunate incident helps demostrate the point.

Best of luck that everything will be taken care of for you Chris.

[Lauralynne]

Laura,

What has happened to Chris and Justin is something we are all concerned with and my best wishes go out to them both regarding all health and financial concerns associated with their incidents. Often we overlook the hassles that we can experience with our medical programs...at least I know I do.

What kind of "secondary" insurance did you acquire? Who did you get it from?

I have Regence BlueShield and called them in advance to make sure I was covered regarding racing accidents and they said "yes" as it is just club racing and I am not a pro making my primary wage with this sport. I have both short and long term disability through them but think the secondary insurance is a great idea.

Secondary insurance is Aflac (Primary is Regence also)

[Simonpie]

Here's my insurance experience from about 10 years back. I was in an HMO when they first started out. 10 days in the hospital. I paid about $250 total. It all boils down to 3 basic statements:

1) Hospitals are notoriously horrible at accurate and understandable billing.
2) Insurance companies are notoriously horrible at prompt logical payments.
3) I will not pay any bill where I am not sure what service was received, what it truly is worth, and that I am responsible to pay it.

The hospital would send me a bill. I would read it, drop it in another envelope, and mail it to the claims address. The hospital would send me letters saying I was supposed to pay the bill and then bill my insurance company. I would forward these letters to the claims address. I did this for a year before they were all done. In the end, everything got paid for except $250 to the ambulance company that I am 100% sure was supposed to be covered by insurance. It was declared "uncollectable." I never saw it on my credit.

By all means pay debts you truly owe! I'm just saying pay nothing until they make it simple and clear to you that you owe it.

[whtnxt?]

Just like most of us, I too inquired and was told as long as I was trained, licensed, and following all rules, anything which occurs to me would be covered. The only kicker is the insurance lawyers would scrutinize everything and see where they could get money, to include the track, racing organization, other racer, etc. If I had supplemental insurance, they would have taken that, hence I do not carry supplementals for that reason.
The insurance plan is so struct because I am a federal employee, under a :thumbsdown: socialized health care plan with extremely strict restrictions on who I can see and when.

[Bad Dog]

When I broke my collarbone at Spokane, I spent a few hours in the hospital but I have extended health insurance I pay for at my work. It can cover disability but due to my job and I dont' work, I don't get paid, I was at work 2 days later. All in all, the insurance covered every bill and I lost no time at work, bike damage was minimal.

[Rubber Ducky]

My total will probably be around $15,000 calculating things the same way you did and for roughly the same amount of time in the ER. I will let you know if i run into any snags that I can help with info on with my insurance and feel free to PM me if you figure something out as well. I have Group Health. :)

Hi Justin, I didn't hear about you going down when did you crash? Do keep me posted on what your insurance does, I will not hear from mine until next week.

I was wondering, how LONG are people out for ribs and collar bone fractures? I am in the ball park if I think I can be back for August?

[Rubber Ducky]

I have Regence BlueShield and called them in advance to make sure I was covered regarding racing accidents and they said "yes" as it is just club racing and I am not a pro making my primary wage with this sport.

Hi Acy, I have Regence as well and I did the same homwork you did prior to start racing. I will definitely keep you in the loop. I hope to see you out there in August, if you are still in Novice then . . . you've been kicking ass and now that Mike has been bumped up you were my next guy to try and chase down around the track . . . yeah you and Marty #922 and Tony #918 and Randy #902 and a couple if others :clap: . . . I was the one praying for last minute rain while everyone was on slicks! . . . seemed to be the only way I could keep up with you guys!

. . . I am having serious withdrawal symptoms right now :burnout: !!

[Ducnhouse]

Hey Chris, glad your healing up, too slow I know. I hope to see you out there later this year. I think we will race in the same classes after you graduate. I can't wait to do some racing in Formula Thunder or Open Twins. I think we are about the same speed.

[The Squid]

Chris! I hope you're healing up man! As to your question about when you will be able to ride again if you have watched Faster then answer is in there. It talks about "racer medical" and "proper medical." This is club racing so be sure to give yourself ample time but if you have enough determination you might be able to make it out a bit sooner :dancingchili:

I have to thank you for keeping this forum so open because I think crashes are something to be learned from. I learned from mine as I'm sure you learned from yours. Thanks for sharing the entire experience (costs included), I learned quite a bit from this posting. So thanks :)


Que le vaya bien (a little practice for you ;) )

[diliracer]

Hi Acy, I have Regence as well and I did the same homwork you did prior to start racing. I will definitely keep you in the loop. I hope to see you out there in August, if you are still in Novice then . . . you've been kicking ass and now that Mike has been bumped up you were my next guy to try and chase down around the track . . . yeah you and Marty #922 and Tony #918 and Randy #902 and a couple if others :clap: . . . I was the one praying for last minute rain while everyone was on slicks! . . . seemed to be the only way I could keep up with you guys!

. . . I am having serious withdrawal symptoms right now :burnout: !!

Hey Chris,

Take your time man. I know you must be chomping at the bit but we would prefer for you to come back at full strength. I graduated after the first Novice heat last race weekend and ran my first 600 SB heat. It was a BLAST!!

I know you will be back and running faster than ever. Seriously, let me know if there is anything I can do for you in the mean time to help.

Heal up and stay in the loop here on the forums.

Acy

[justintime2]

Hi Justin, I didn't hear about you going down when did you crash? Do keep me posted on what your insurance does, I will not hear from mine until next week.

I was wondering, how LONG are people out for ribs and collar bone fractures? I am in the ball park if I think I can be back for August?Ribs are not a big deal for healing time line, as long as it's not a severe fracture. The clavicle will take 2-4 weeks to fuse and another 2-4 to be back at workable strength for waht we do. Some movement, just not over doing it, is actually good for the healing and will prevent your shoulder girdle, or A/C process where your humurous, scapula and cavicle all meet, from getting sore from lack of motion. That's what actually hurts the worst on me now and is just now getting back to normal as my movement and use of it does too.

My wreck was on 5-05 in turn 2. (http://www.wmrra.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3329)

Will let you know on the insurance... :pokestick:

[Bad Dog]

Ribs are not a big deal for healing time line, as long as it's not a severe fracture. The clavicle will take 2-4 weeks to fuse and another 2-4 to be back at workable strength for waht we do. Some movement, just not over doing it, is actually good for the healing and will prevent your shoulder girdle, or A/C process where your humurous, scapula and cavicle all meet, from getting sore from lack of motion. That's what actually hurts the worst on me now and is just now getting back to normal as my movement and use of it does too.

My wreck was on 5-05 in turn 2. (http://www.wmrra.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3329)

Will let you know on the insurance... :pokestick:

I heard that too, in my case, I had no choice but to test that theory, :(
I am now 37 so healing takes longer, took aprox 2-3 months to heal up strongly but I did break a chunk off. I also moved and worked everyday during that time. It took another 3-4 months to get full mobility back but even today, its still a bit sore.

[redrider2]

Chris - Hoping the best on your healing process and pace. Take the time needed to heal properly though. No need to risk further injury by coming back too soon. Plus, I need some time to get faster before you come back. j/k Looking forward to dicing with you again in the near future.

[Studio819]

take the time to heal up properly. Much wiser to spend the money in the off season doing a little traveling and hitting up other tracks (which BTW, let me know if you are hitting them) and getting experience then pushing yourself in your Novice season and risking some severe damage early on. You're a really good rider (and on a Duc to boot!!!) take the time to heal up

[k2ak]

Chris,
Glad to hear you are up and about. This thread you started is really good for a lot of us. Quite the learning experience...

Keep us posted on your progress. I hope to see you out there soon.

[Bradley]

I have regence as well but it only covers 100% if they take me to a hospital listed on my network. How do you make sure they take you to the right place? I'm assuming if it's bad enough youre going to Harbor view. Also Laurelynne which Aflac policy did you get? Their telling me if I'm hurt racing they won't cover me.

[Lauralynne]

I have regence as well but it only covers 100% if they take me to a hospital listed on my network. How do you make sure they take you to the right place? I'm assuming if it's bad enough youre going to Harbor view. Also Laurelynne which Aflac policy did you get? Their telling me if I'm hurt racing they won't cover me.


My AFLAC is: Personal Accident Indemnity Plan (Accident Only Insurance Policy) and also Personal Disability Income Protector (short term disability insurance policy)

Both of which specifically cover me if I'm hurt racing.

[Bradley]

Thanks Lauralynne (I think I spelled it right this time) do you mind telling me how much you pay per month for that? Also who is your representative I can't seem to get anyone to call me back at AFLAC.

[Lauralynne]

I go through my HR at work - I don't have a direct contact unfortunately :(

*edit* I pay $65/month for me and (2 kids are on the accident portion of it)

[Ex Presidente]

I have regence as well but it only covers 100% if they take me to a hospital listed on my network. How do you make sure they take you to the right place? I'm assuming if it's bad enough youre going to Harbor view. Also Laurelynne which Aflac policy did you get? Their telling me if I'm hurt racing they won't cover me.

On my medical form in big Red Letters it says "Transport to Valley"
I had a friend get transported to Auburn, than they realized that he had a partially collapsed lung and airlifted him to Valley since Auburn is not a trauma hospital.
Hardorview though is the closest Level 1 (I believe that's what they call it) to the Track.

[ewok]

I've been to both a few times. Once at Auburn the power went out for an hour. Nobody did anything. i was wishing i'd taken my generator with me to the hospital.

[Seehorn]

They said my hospital bill would be over $100K, but I haven't recieved anything yet in the mail from my insurance! Hopefully my deductable doesn't go over $5K, cause I'm broke.

[gazman]

funny, i was going to post a simular post about this too since i got run over. So far, i have guessed about 3500 dollars for my shit. I am on an HMO plan with my company and sent all the bills to them. They want more info before they hand over the money so i am waiting for a forum. Most of it should be covered but i'll find out soon enough

[pappawheelie]

#1 rule with dealing with insurance. Make sure it's very clear that your insurance understands that you are not racing "proffessionally"!

At the point where you have the oportunity to make money, it's "proffessional".

[Mr Sunshine]

#1 rule with dealing with insurance. Make sure it's very clear that your insurance understands that you are not racing "proffessionally"!

At the point where you have the oportunity to make money, it's "proffessional".

With my insurance they go based of what license you hold. They reconize the difference between an 'Expert' license and a 'Professional' license (like you would get if you were an AMA rider).

[Rubber Ducky]

#1 rule with dealing with insurance. Make sure it's very clear that your insurance understands that you are not racing "proffessionally"!

At the point where you have the oportunity to make money, it's "proffessional".

Thanks for pointing this out, I had not heard of the distinction between professional racing and club racing and it has not come up yet but if it does . .. For the time being I just got over the hurdle of ensuring all doctors and medical institutions re-classified the accident as "non-Auto" so that they did not try and make me collect from the Auto insurance rather than billling my Health Insurance directly. It was actually a pretty smooth process and was mainly handled by phone calls and sending invoices back to he originating institution.

Curious about cost of the Ambulance?
SRP to downtown Spokane: 10 miles or $1,102.00 . . . when I called them about my billing issues I did take the time to thank them profusely. They are more spendy than the most exclusive limo service but worth every penny :bigok:

[irnieracing]

I'm really glad I discovered this thread. I should double check that i'm covered for bike racing with my travel insurance. With "free" health care in Canada, we are only covered up to, "as much the same procedure would cost in Canada." :baaa:
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f221/namesmarcel/cdnsuperbike%20calgary%202007/DSC04220.jpg

[curve_hugger]

I'm really glad to read this, too. I will have Lynk read it when he's back from Spokanastan and do some research, since I'm sure he doesn't know what his insurance covers (just got it) and newbie racer. Thanks for all the great info!:thumbsup:


1) Hospitals are notoriously horrible at accurate and understandable billing.

Very true but I took Medical Billing courses and you wouldn't believe how complicated it is, especially if you use more than one department (ie emergency, labs), and many people get their hands on that bill before it gets to you. That's why many departments bill seperately, just because the single form is so crazy! Just some FYI...

Best wishes for all you guys!

[ngng]

When I crashed in T2 the ambulance ride and ER visit was 5k or so...surgery on my hand was another $30k or so...and PT afterwards was a few thousand more. That was the monetary value. In addition the the above, I have a finger they sewed back on but wanted to amputate. Awesome!

[Studio819]

ok, I have been watching "Sicko" lately and I want to know from the BC riders (basically) how true is it?

WMRC/Mission Raceway is one scary track. Coming out of T6 in the wet is begging to get hurt, so let's say you do hit the wall and get thrown hard and are required due to getting knocked out (not hard to believe in that turn) to take an ambulance ride. What is the cost of something like that? Ambulance ride, doctors taking care of you, you wake up and are bandanged/casted up/digit reattached.....what is the cost of that? I have already heard what the US riders pay for a broken collar bone.

[Bad Dog]

ok, I have been watching "Sicko" lately and I want to know from the BC riders (basically) how true is it?

WMRC/Mission Raceway is one scary track. Coming out of T6 in the wet is begging to get hurt, so let's say you do hit the wall and get thrown hard and are required due to getting knocked out (not hard to believe in that turn) to take an ambulance ride. What is the cost of something like that? Ambulance ride, doctors taking care of you, you wake up and are bandanged/casted up/digit reattached.....what is the cost of that? I have already heard what the US riders pay for a broken collar bone.

T6 used to be bad but we now have air fence there and at the kink. Sure our track is a bit more dangerous but no worse than the concrete corrider at PR or turn 5 at the back section, turn 8 up the hill.

Not sure what the costs are, but if your in BC and you have Medicare, its all free. If per chance your from out of town, have your buddy rip out your medical card and call the company, there not going to say no if your buddy is out cold.

Brandon, you've been to Mission, you know what the track is like?

[Studio819]

I have shot there many times before last year and to tell the truth, it's a damn scary track personally. I can see karts racing there, but not bikes.

[Rubber Ducky]

At the end of the season and now that all bills have made it to my mailbox I have to say that this was not bad at all. Even with my run of the mill insurance (Regence Blue Shield) and with well over 15K in bills from hospitals and doctors my out of pocket expense was less than $1,000.00!

The most shocking thing was my bill from Deaconess Hospital in Spokane. The invoice the hospital sent me was over 12K. I passed it along to the insurance and when they sent me their "Explanation of Benefits" it showed that their "negotiated price" for the services I had received went from 12K to just over $1,500.00. My out-of-pocket expense for the $1,500 was $256.00, yes $256.00. What it sadly boiled down to is that - if I did not have insurance - the hospital would have attempted to collect $12,000.00 from me personally although all they got from Regence was far less than that.

So moral of the story, crashing still sucks . . . but not as bad as I thought!:lmao:

[justintime2]

Nice outcome Chris!
After roughly $12,000 for my T2 fiasco, I paid a $75 emergency room co-pay, and that's it. I probably have it a little better than some since I'm a FF and our benefits are pretty good, but I have no yearly deductible and the dept pays all the premiums. I almost feel guilty, ALMOST! :)

This thread is important though if it does nothing more than get people to figure out wether their covered before the wreck and not afterward. Could be catastrophic and life long consequences if it turns out different than you thought for coverage. :(

[evil_dave]

I'm really glad I discovered this thread. I should double check that i'm covered for bike racing with my travel insurance. With "free" health care in Canada, we are only covered up to, "as much the same procedure would cost in Canada."

Hmm. Well at least our dollars are equal now... :shrug: