Counter Steering??

[FreckledGsxr6]

This may be the most newbie question ever but i just wanna be clear on the subject. I have had this explained to me before and i understand the concept i guess. But I am just curious how much you actually push on your grip to counter steer in a corner? And is the overall effect that its helping the bike over quicker and holding the line better? I guess i am unclear on that as well. I just wanna know how much is to much and how much is not enough? And how do you know when you you have to much input? Just by feel of the tire and suspension feedback? Is there a rule of thumb that everyone uses or is it much like everything else and everyone has there own style about it. Sorry about the newb question but i wanna make sure i am riding properly. And try to minimize my mistakes by listening to others advice.

Thanks, Patrick

[Moto]

This may be the most newbie question ever but i just wanna be clear on the subject. I have had this explained to me before and i understand the concept i guess. But I am just curious how much you actually push on your grip to counter steer in a corner? And is the overall effect that its helping the bike over quicker and holding the line better? I guess i am unclear on that as well. I just wanna know how much is to much and how much is not enough? And how do you know when you you have to much input? Just by feel of the tire and suspension feedback? Is there a rule of thumb that everyone uses or is it much like everything else and everyone has there own style about it. Sorry about the newb question but i wanna make sure i am riding properly. And try to minimize my mistakes by listening to others advice.

Thanks, Patrick

there's not really such thing as too much. the whole idea is to get the bike on it's side as quickly as possible.

how much do you push? well, how fast are you going lol?

[TaurusRacing]

This may be the most newbie question ever but i just wanna be clear on the subject. I have had this explained to me before and i understand the concept i guess. But I am just curious how much you actually push on your grip to counter steer in a corner? And is the overall effect that its helping the bike over quicker and holding the line better? I guess i am unclear on that as well. I just wanna know how much is to much and how much is not enough? And how do you know when you you have to much input? Just by feel of the tire and suspension feedback? Is there a rule of thumb that everyone uses or is it much like everything else and everyone has there own style about it. Sorry about the newb question but i wanna make sure i am riding properly. And try to minimize my mistakes by listening to others advice.

Thanks, Patrick

I am in no position to give advice or voice my opinion. I just wanted to weigh in and say that for years on the street I focused on countersteering, which was also taught at MSF school. When I recently went to Jason Pridmore's Star school they didn't mention countersteering AT ALL! Really suprised me. What they taught was early weight/body shift before a corner. This doesn't mean you move a lot on the bike just pivot around the tank like your marbles are attached to the tank. It also doesn't mean you hang off the bike. However, some of us small guys have to make adjustments for our size (lean angle, weight, etc.).

I hope this helps some.

[Moto]

ok - you're still counter steering though. otherwise, you wouldn't turn. i haven't done the Star School - perhaps they are thinking people have got the basic fundamentals down...

[The Squid]

This may be the most newbie question ever but i just wanna be clear on the subject. I have had this explained to me before and i understand the concept i guess. But I am just curious how much you actually push on your grip to counter steer in a corner? And is the overall effect that its helping the bike over quicker and holding the line better? I guess i am unclear on that as well. I just wanna know how much is to much and how much is not enough? And how do you know when you you have to much input? Just by feel of the tire and suspension feedback? Is there a rule of thumb that everyone uses or is it much like everything else and everyone has there own style about it. Sorry about the newb question but i wanna make sure i am riding properly. And try to minimize my mistakes by listening to others advice.

Thanks, Patrick

Patrick,

I wouldn't worry about this one. If you can make it around the track then you are obviously counter-steering correctly. The faster you go, the quicker everything needs to happen, including laying the bike down into a corner.

If you want to test yourself to see you have the concept down just take your bike out on the freeway. Get it up the speed so you have ample gyroscopic effect and then change lanes.

I like to watch motorcyclists change lanes on the freeway becuase its a simple test to see if they understand counter steering or not.

There are two outcomes (for a left lane to one lane right change)

1) the rider leans right, there is a delay, then the bike follows

2) the rider doesn't lean that much, and the bike makes a quick transition.

number two is the correct outcome if you incorporate counter steering.

This is because the rider in situation two is actually steering the bike with the handle bars. He is counter steering. Rider number two thinks that you lean a motorcycle at speed and it turns in response to your weight. This is true but the higher the speed the less of an affect it has on the bike.

Another great way to lean counter steering is to ride a hold goldwing. At Keith Code's California Superbike School they have a bike rigged with two sets on handle bars. One regular set, and one about a foot above that. The goldwing handle bars are about the same configuration so it accomplishes the same thing. Higher bars don't allow you to use your body weight to steer the motorcycle. The only reason why it works in the above situation for rider number two is that when he moves his body to the right, he is applying pressure to the handle bars and thus the motorcycle turns. You cannot turn a motorcycle unless you use the handle bars, that's why they're there. Go take a goldwing for a few rides, then you will get the basic principles of counter steering down.

[Mr Sunshine]

Patrick,
The faster you go, the quicker everything needs to happen, including laying the bike down into a corner.


No always true. What is always true is the faster you go the harder you have to push (or pull your preference) to get the bike to lean over.

[dakh]

I don't get the question. You countersteer as much as is needed to get the line you want.

[Apex.One]

If you learned to ride a bicycle when you were younger then you have known countersteering the entire time. You just didn't know that you knew it.

At slow speeds (<10 mph or so) if you want to turn your bike you pull left the wheel turns left and the bike goes left.

Once you are at speed though the gyro effect takes over. Now you push left the wheel turns slightly to the right and the bike leans on its' side. The smaller circumference and angle of the tire are now turning the bike for you. The bike would naturally slow at this point (and gravity would ultimately claim you) so you need to add a small amount of throttle to keep the gyro effect strong enough to combat gravity.

When you position your body off the bike you will turn the bike with your weight without moving the bars. Combined with your countersteering you will make the bike turn very quickly. If you lean first you can always add more countersteering, but if you countersteer first and then lean you will upset your suspension and the bike will dancing around underneath you and not working to its' full potential.

[FreckledGsxr6]

Thanks for the replies about this! I know i do it but maybe i just have'nt notice or thought to much about it. I guess i was just curious on others technique to this and how much input into the bike is made. But that pretty much answers itself like you guys said. Depending on the corner and the speed which you are traveling at. Do you guys crack the throttle just a bit through the corner until the apex where you begin to open it up again? Or let off all the way then open it again? Thanks for the replies and your patience on the subject.

Later, Patrick

[dakh]

Thanks for the replies about this! I know i do it but maybe i just have'nt notice or thought to much about it. I guess i was just curious on others technique to this and how much input into the bike is made. But that pretty much answers itself like you guys said. Depending on the corner and the speed which you are traveling at. Do you guys crack the throttle just a bit through the corner until the apex where you begin to open it up again? Or let off all the way then open it again? Thanks for the replies and your patience on the subject.

Later, Patrick

Get yourself one (or more) of those books like Lee Park's, they go into great detail about what works. What you're referring to is "maintenance throttle", to keep the front/rear balance right. Those books have nice charts and what not to help you get an idea not only what to do but also why.

[FreckledGsxr6]

Get yourself one (or more) of those books like Lee Park's, they go into great detail about what works. What you're referring to is "maintenance throttle", to keep the front/rear balance right. Those books have nice charts and what not to help you get an idea not only what to do but also why.

Thanks yeah i picked up with a twist of the wrist 1 and 2 by keith Code. And i will look into that one as well. I am hoping those are gonna work. But its hard due to the fact that i am a fairly visual learner. So i hope with the books this forum and different schools i can get my riding skill up to par so i can be out on the track safely. Which safely is relative i just don't want to make things sketchy for the others that i will be out there with!

Later, Patrick

[ngng]

well, i dont ride fast enough on the track to need to countersteer anyhow :D

....kidding