*READ THIS* Opinions??

[kaneohekid]

Just wondering what if anyone has an opinion on this. Here's the situation: Supose a racer is attending a track day in preperation for a race and a slower street bike rider that was attending the track day cuts into his line. Well the only thing the racer could do was put on the brakes which caused his/her front end to wash out and low side. The bike then slides across the track and causes another street bike rider to go off the track and drop his/her bike in the dirt. Aparently, this street rider had insurance on his/her bike and his/her insurance company clamis that the incident is the racers fault and finds him/her responsible for all damages. So my questions are...

1. Who is at fault....or better yet.. is there any fault?

2. Do insurance companies acctually cover riders on a race track?

3. Should a rider be on the track if they are worried about possibly damaging their bike?

4. What protection does a racer have when they are on the track against this kind of situation (insuring a race bike???)

5. Anyone know a good lawer?


anyone have some insight on the situation, any would be good.

[Lauralynne]

WOW. I'll be intersted in hearing how this turns out. I'm sorry for everyone in this case....

[pscook]

My (limited) experience is if there was no contact between vehicles, there was no fault. However, a Lawyer will prove either side for a fee. Also, wasn't this on private property? Would that have any bearing? Didn't any of these alleged participants sign waivers?
All very important questions, and I will be interested in hearing how this turns out.
phil

[Steve]

All I can say is, it puts a whole new perspective on track days if there's a possibility of being sued and/or responsible for someone else's bike in the event of a crash, even I was was "at fault."

Does anyone actually know what we agree to when we sign up for these events? I don't think I've actually read the full disclosure.

Lastly, for all those considering track days that can't afford to pay for their own bike in the event of a crash, regardless of fault, please don't sign up.

[Ex Presidente]

What track day org was this? The only reason I ask is becasue than you may be able to view there waiver to see if stuff like this is covered.

Luke

[kaneohekid]

When I delt with the insurance company, and I found this strange, they said that since their client didn't sign any kind of waiver with them (the insurance company) stating that he would never use the bike on the track they were obligated to honor this persons policy and excise the right to place blame on someone and make them pay for all damages, which seems like a bunch of BS and made no sense too me. The whole private property thing didn't make much difference to them I explained that this is a race track where you enter at your own risk.... so says the sign on the front gate, they said it didn't matter. As far as waivers goes, every one at the event had to sign waivers but the insurance company said that it only releases the company holding the event from all liability. However, to me, if you sign this release, you recognize all the dangers associated with this sport and seems to me releases everyone from liability but I'm sure the insurance company will not see it that way. I don't know, well I have two witnesses that saw the the other guy cut in front of me causing me to low side, so hopefull I can prove that I didn't cause the accident. It'll blow if this whole thing dosen't work out cause that will mean that I'll have to sell my bike to pay for this other guys bike = good bye racing/riding/trackdays for the rest of 2005 and 2006. Is there anything that can be done to protect us from this kind of thing from happening again???

[Ex Presidente]

That sucks man! I hope this all works out in your favor!

If it were me, I'd get a copy of the waiver and retain an attorney that is familiar with this kind of stuff.

PM me if you want the name of a great Attorney!

Luke

[ewok]

i won't give you legal advice over the web. if you are a wmrra racer, you can call me ed kok @ 208 292 0721. i might be of some help.

regards
ed

[pscook]

If you have witnesses stating that you didn't cause the accident, then you didn't cause the accident, and the other rider is at fault.
Maybe you should redirect the aim/wrath of the insurance company to the person that caused you to lose control, and remove yourself from this mess. You just happened to get caught in the middle of an unfortunate incident.
And, it sounds like the rider was in breach of contract with the insurance company. If I do something that I was told not to, and it causes me suffering, who is really at fault?
Good luck,
phil

[Steve]

Here's a thought. If this were just a normal street ride, which is how the insurance company is making this sound, then the guy that you "caused to go off the track and crash" was following too closely or going too fast for conditions. Much like when you rear end someone, it is generally you're fault as you should be leaving yourself enough room. I mean, your bike didn't hit him or anything. Sounds to me like this moron making the claim didn't give himself an out thus causing him to crash.

Not sure if this is a valid arguement but it's something.

[Will]

I didn't sign any specific waiver, but my insurance agent is aware that I do track days and specifically reminded me that my insurance doesn't cover anything that happens on a closed circuit. Even if I drop the bike during safety training of some kind, I am not covered. Not that a track day is safety training, but they went so far as to say that damage to the bike on a closed circuit is not covered even if the training class was one that would have lowered my insurance premium.

Best of luck with what sounds like a really screwed up situation.

[kaneohekid]

Well, I was talking to one of the witnesses of the incident and he said that the other guy didn't even hit my bike, rather crashed on his own avoiding it. This is interesting because when I spoke to his insurance agent he said in his own words that that even if I was trying to avoid being hit by another rider/car (they keep treating it as a street accident) and didn't end up being hit but crashed and caused another accident then I'm still liable/at fault. So what does this mean then if the other guy was never hit buy my bike and crashed on his own? His fault right? At this point I'm going to stop sweating it, I'm just going to kick it and if some screwy bill comes to me then I'll fight it! Oh, I heard that the other guy totally scored in his situation, his bike was claimed totaled THEN he bought back the bike for like $1600! The witness that I was talking to said that only the plastics were f&*k up and thats it. SCORE! Well at least one of us is taken care off, hopefully I'm next.

[Nicolas07]

Sounds like this idiot and his insurance agent are total a-hole's just trying to get money outta you. Fight For Your Right to be right, you know? Anyway, i'm interested in how this turns out for ya, best of luck!

[Ex Presidente]

Let's not tear into this guy....from what I've heard, it's not the other guy involved it's his Inusrance Co that is being the A--hole!

Luke

[Steve]

Let's not tear into this guy....from what I've heard, it's not the other guy involved it's his Inusrance Co that is being the A--hole!

Luke

I can see what you're saying but am wondering why a claim would be made in the first place. I guess he may have not known they would go after another rider but upon knowing that, I think I would withdrawl the claim and accept responsibility for my own actions, even if I was cut off or hit by another rider that was perhaps "at fault." To me, that's the risk I accept while racing and on track days.

[Toucan]

Past experience leads me to believe the guy who made the claim stated to his insurance that others were involved. I know if he said he just crashed on his own (effectively what happened) the ins. co. wouldn't be coming after anyone else. My crash and resulting claim was covered because it was a track school/day. No one else was mentioned, so the ins. co. had no one to go after.

Someone had to name names, so the claimant obviously had all the correct info of who was there.

[bikerscum]

In my experience, riders are insured anywhere, so long as they're not part of a timed competition. While I do like to go out and win the beginner levels at track days, the only timing that's being done is by my lap timer - oh, and none of my competitors know I'm racing. w00t.

I agree with Toucan - the insurance company had to pay out for a claim, and they heard a name mentioned. They want to be reimbursed since paying out without getting paid back is expensive. If they really are intent on collecting on this matter, point the finger at the other insured rider with the wonky line. Then the insurance companies can settle with each other and leave everyone else out of it.

I'm bored at work, and in my current mental fantasy world, that's how I'd do it. :p

[Kevintrepid]

What insurance company is it, anyway, that is going after you? This really blows. I couldn't see any courtroom siding with the insurance company, anyway. Really, what was this guy paying for premiums? Getting coverage for circuit riding? No way.

[Railer]

So it's been 2 1/2 months since the initial post. What happened with the waivers?

Steve did your question get answered about a rider's responsibility/liability to the other riders participating? Does the track owner's waiver cover any of this? Just curious.

[kaneohekid]

I have not heard anything from the insurance company since a few days after the incident.....but who knows. :confused: