PowerStands introduces Kingpin - wheel tree & PowerJack - se

[powerstands]

Accepting 07 racer sponsorship.
MSRP $249
http://www.powerstands.com/images/kingpin.jpg
Available Feb 07.

http://www.powerstands.com/images/powerjack.jpg
MSRP $135,Available Feb 07.
More details on PowerStands.com

[Mr Sunshine]

Oh that Kingpin tree looks perfect. I think I'll have to get one.

[justintime2]

Email sent...I like the tire tree too :)

[EmDee]

The folding wheel tree is reported to be an exact Chinese copy of the pitbull one:
Road Racing World Article (http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=27852)

The real deal:
Pit Bull Tire Tree (http://www.pit-bull.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=24_181&products_id=213&osCsid=0fb87c562b9ee61b2b12bdd27c605e7d)
http://www.pit-bull.com/catalog/images/Tire%20Tree%20LG.jpg

Most of you could care less, but I thought I'd set the record straight here!

[kaneohekid]

There was a big thing about it on the WERA forum http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?t=128231 man those guys are brutal over there :o

[timk]

I guess they rather pay more.
Or they'd rather pay the company who designed the thing that the one who ripped it off.

It's a buying decision that each person has to make for themselves, and it applies to many more products than just this one. Some people design products; some rip off the designs of others. The ripoffs are always going to be less expensive. I like to support the guys who put the time and effort and ingenuity into designing new and useful products rather than the guys who take someone else's design and ship it off to China for replication. That's my decision.

If people don't support the originators like Pit Bull and keep them in business and designing new products, how can companies like PowerStands continue to introduce new products? It's not like they're going to all of a sudden start coming up with good new designs on their own. That's not how they work.

So go ahead and save a few bucks buying the ripoff if you want, but also try to remember that if stuck up dicks like me weren't supporting Pit Bull then Power Stands wouldn't have anything to rip off and sell you for less.

[Mr Sunshine]

Gee...you guys have already made a verdict on the case. Has anyone here had a chance to do comparisions for themselves in person? There is only so many ways to design a tire tree.

[pscook]

Gee...you guys have already made a verdict on the case. Has anyone here had a chance to do comparisions for themselves in person? There is only so many ways to design a tire tree.

To me it looks like there is only one way to design a tire tree, and Pit Bull got there first.
There are many ways to be innovators, but only one way to not be.

[timk]

I don't really care. I just buy what there is. A lot of people do.

Anyway, if someone buys the design, then its not a rip off. That's true. But based on this article (http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=27852) I'm thinking PowerStands didn't buy (license) the Pit Bull design.

Its too bad your a stuck up dick. :pI've learned to accept it. :D

[redrider2]

Patent enforcement is always expensive. Sometimes it's better for a company to differentiate on quality and service than design patents if the product is fairly simplistic in nature. ie Only so many ways to design a collapsible tree stand.

The durability of that stand would seem to me, the best diffentiator. If the knock off is of inferior build quality or materials, the buyer gets what they paid for.

If protection is really desired, best to get the patent prior to going to market and then fight like hell everytime someone tries to infringe on that patent...before they start turning a profit. The article makes it sound like Pit Bull went to market and is still seeking a patent on the design, and/or is delaying aggressive action to have the knock offs removed from the market place.

If the stand goes to market prior to a patent being filed and the product is purchased and reverse engineered or copied, that's pretty typical product competition in the market place.

You don't think GM buys a few Fords and Chryslers once in awhile so they can tear them apart and see what other folks are doing and also evaluate any opportunities to copy without infringement?

[Mr Sunshine]

If protection is really desired, best to get the patent prior to going to market and then fight like hell everytime someone tries to infringe on that patent...before they start turning a profit. The article makes it sound like Pit Bull went to market and is still seeking a patent on the design, and/or is delaying aggressive action to have the knock offs removed from the market place.

You actually have to fight like hell on each and every patent infringement of a patent you have which has been discovered or your patent is no longer valid.

Kinda sucks but that is how I understand things have to be handled.


Now I've since rear a bunch of the WERA posts and I'm at a impass.

On one side I don't want to buy stuff which is a cheap knock off espcially if it is made in China. On the other side I look at just how much cheaper it is for me (with them as a sponsor) to buy the stuff. If the stuff is good enough then I'm ahead of the game financially wise right now.

I am/was very interested in buying the tire stand as it seemed as though it would help out alot in keeping those wheels and tires available for those days where the weather is variable. I look at the Pit Bull stand and I see $350 and I think damn I'm spending so much money other places that if I can save almost $200 through Power Stands then that's a bunch. I also need to buy another front stand for those days I run both of my bikes. Again there is a nice discount to be had with the Power Stands.

So I guess the question for me is do I follow my pocket book or do I follow my moral belief that the US is working its way to a massive hole (ok its already ina massive hole so is the whole getting deeper) and buying stuff made out of this country doesn't really help out the problem.

Um...

[skidmarx]

...So I guess the question for me is do I follow my pocket book or do I follow my moral belief that the US is working its way to a massive hole (ok its already ina massive hole so is the whole getting deeper) and buying stuff made out of this country doesn't really help out the problem.

Um...
Compromising one's morals at any level is a very slippery slope... ;)

[Mr Sunshine]

Compromising one's morals at any level is a very slippery slope... ;)


Unless you get to score with a really hot lady...then it might be acceptable.


ok that's a joke cause we all know I wouldn't have a chance with a really hot lady unless it was my wife and even then its iffy. :cool:

[timk]

So I guess the question for me is do I follow my pocket book or do I follow my moral belief [...]Or option #3: Reconsider the importance of a tire tree. 99% of the racers in this club have gotten by without tire trees forever.

My solution to wheel organization, given that I have 3 sets of wheels for my racebike (aftermarket with slicks, oem with dots, and oem with rains), was to spend a grand total of about twenty bucks on stuff from the hardware store to make and install four stub axles on the inside wall of my trailer:

http://users.adelphia.net/~timkeane/temp/wheelmount.jpg

Not only does this el cheapo solution keep my wheels handy yet out of the way (and out of the rain) at the track, it requires even less setup/teardown time than a folding tire tree (ie: none) , and more importantly it also provides a safe and secure way to transport the wheels to and from the track -- something you'll still need to come up with even if you do buy the folding tree for use in the pits.

Bottom line: If saving a couple hundred bucks is that important, spending any money at all on a clearly nonessential luxury poser item like a fancy folding tire tree for the pits is questionable at best, IMO. :confused:

[dinolee]

Very cool idea Tim. BTW, I'm going to steal your design ;) If you would like to collect a royalty fee, I'll have a beer in the ice chest with your name on it on Saturday, March 31st. :)

-damon

[timk]

If you would like to collect a royalty fee, I'll have a beer in the ice chest with your name on it on Saturday, March 31st. :)
That's a deal!

Anybody else who wants to copy my design and then give me beer is welcome to join in. :D

[Mr Sunshine]

Or option #3: Reconsider the importance of a tire tree. 99% of the racers in this club have gotten by without tire trees forever.

My solution to wheel organization, given that I have 3 sets of wheels for my racebike (aftermarket with slicks, oem with dots, and oem with rains), was to spend a grand total of about twenty bucks on stuff from the hardware store to make and install four stub axles on the inside wall of my trailer:

http://users.adelphia.net/~timkeane/temp/wheelmount.jpg

Not only does this el cheapo solution keep my wheels handy yet out of the way (and out of the rain) at the track, it requires even less setup/teardown time than a folding tire tree (ie: none) , and more importantly it also provides a safe and secure way to transport the wheels to and from the track -- something you'll still need to come up with even if you do buy the folding tree for use in the pits.

Bottom line: If saving a couple hundred bucks is that important, spending any money at all on a clearly nonessential luxury poser item like a fancy folding tire tree for the pits is questionable at best, IMO. :confused:


Tim through a trade of some stuff I had an organizer like that. The problem is it fell off the wall of my trailer twice and almost a third time. It bent a rotor on my front wheel each time and the second time it dented the tank of my bike. So needly to say I'm just a little gun shy on hanging things like wheels off the side of my trailer (even though I have a new trailer that should be alot less bouncy). When I purchased my new trailer I asked them what fastener should I use to attach things to the walls (on the frame studs of course) and what they gave me was exactly what I was using before. So the idea behind the tire tree is that I can lash it to the walls of the trailer when in transport and then I can just either pull it out or leave it in there when I'm at the track.

So yes to me it is an essential item just like your $20 solution.

Edit:

Now I do have a bunch of E-Track on the sidewalls so if I had a welder I could make something very cool that would attach to the etrack and allow me to securely hang the wheels off the side walls.

[Mr Sunshine]

That's a deal!

Anybody else who wants to copy my design and then give me beer is welcome to join in. :D


BTW: You know that Phil Clark came up with a similiar thing at least a couple of years ago. It is call the MTR and the MTR II (II for two wheels). So I wonder if you are actually coping him. :p

[timk]

So yes to me it is an essential item just like your $20 solution.Fair enough. Everybody draws the line in a different place on what is essential race gear and what isn't. But I gotta add that your experience with stuff flying off your trailer walls is somewhat unique as far as I know -- there are a lot of trailers in WMRRA with a lot of stuff on the walls that stays there fine. Just sayin'.

I guess that just leaves you back with your original moral quandry. Good luck with that.

BTW: You know that Phil Clark came up with a similiar thing at least a couple of years ago. It is call the MTR and the MTR II (II for two wheels). So I wonder if you are actually coping him. :p
I think that's where I got the idea in the first place. I saw a folding version being sold at the track for something like $50 and thought, "Hey, I bet I can make something myself which does that job for about $5 if I do away with the folding feature." (I wonder how many of Phil's have flown off the wall. ;) )

I suppose I could have bought one of Phil's, sent it to China for copying, and then sold the copies at the track for $25... :rolleyes:

[Mr Sunshine]

Fair enough. Everybody draws the line in a different place on what is essential race gear and what isn't. But I gotta add that your experience with stuff flying off your trailer walls is somewhat unique as far as I know -- there are a lot of trailers in WMRRA with a lot of stuff on the walls that stays there fine. Just sayin'.

I guess that just leaves you back with your original moral quandry. Good luck with that.


I think that's where I got the idea in the first place. I saw a folding version being sold at the track for something like $50 and thought, "Hey, I bet I can make something myself which does that job for about $5 if I do away with the folding feature." (I wonder how many of Phil's have flown off the wall. ;) )

I suppose I could have bought one of Phil's, sent it to China for copying, and then sold the copies at the track for $25... :rolleyes:

Yeah I realize I have had a unique experience. No idea why...oh well. I have also thought of another way I can carry the wheels without having them hang on the wall but have them protected. There is a very real chance i'll go that route and it'll cost me like $20 at the hardware store in wood. If this works out that tire tree becomes just like what you thought of it. Bling. :)

Oh I did talk to Phil about it and he said he never heard of that happening. I actually figured out an improvement to his design to help prevent it from happening to anybody else...but eh...I don't care to find someone to manufactor it.

[Hypnotiq]

That's a deal!

Anybody else who wants to copy my design and then give me beer is welcome to join in. :D

You need to specify the type of beer. :)

[geddyt]

Aw, Man, I'm totally doing that wall-hang system. But I'm too poor almost for even the $20 in hardware, let alone a whole, cold beer for royalties. So do you mind if I just hook you up with the warm, skunky last two inches of a beer I've already drank the rest of?

I'll have it waiting for you in my cooler...

[powerstands]

hi everyone,

There are several issues on the Pit Bull vs. PowerStands discussion which I would like to clarify:

Patent & knock off issue:
1. Tire tree / Wheel tree / Apparatus to suspend wheel by its hub is & has been an "utility" function design that has been in the PUBLIC DOMAIN and therefore not patentable with regards to US Patent and Trademark (www.uspto.gov) laws.

2. Pit Bull claimed having patent on the tire tree when in fact Pit Bull does not have any patent on the tire tree. Not even a "pending" patent application with the US PTO.

3. PB claimed PowerStands Kingpin wheel tree is inferior to their product. Kingpin was designed by CalPoly Pomona engineering apprentice with consultation of the engineering professor, we are confident it may be even tougher than pit bull product.

4. PB claimed knock off of their design. Kingpin wheel tree is an expansion of PowerStands product offering and was in development/prototype stage when Pit Bull released their tire tree. Kingpin has features that allows for very compact storage and transportation, which has always been the key feature in PowerStands product line. PB tire tree is 'Over Sized 2' at shipping bill rate of 70lbs. with UPS. Kingpin is only 25lbs actual weight and not over sized for UPS. They are similar products with similar functions, but we preferred our own Kingpin design from our own R&D.

5. US made & Chinese made. PowerStands is owned by a USA corporation based in Los Angeles, California, with USA share holders & USA employees. PowerStands supports racers, racing teams and organizations ONLY in USA. ALL PowerStands products are designed in USA and manufactured in China, and Taiwan by PowerStands affiliated factories. We guarantee all PowerStands product to be very well made with quality & durability that meet or exceed PB products.

Industry Background:
PB has enjoyed lacked of competitions in the industry for quite some time. When PowerStands first came to the market in 02, we were threatened by PB about "potential" patent infringement on their stand designs. PB had no patent of any kind in 02. We continued to challenge PB in the market place.

Feb 21, 2006, PB got their patent No. "US 7,000,901 B1" from US Patent and Trademark Office (www.uspto.gov) for their 'new front stand'. PB then sent a cease & desist letter to almost every stand manufacturer, PowerStands, Vortex Racing included about their patent and "infringement" on their patent. "YES", PB got a patent, but "NO" their patent is NON-DEFENSIBLE in the courts. In short, the keywords are "prior art" & "public domain". The stand design has been in the public domain prior to PB receiving their patent.

We had a very open discussion with PB's attorney Larry W. Brantley about PB non-defensible patent at the Law Offices of Waddey&Patterson P.C.. Here's their phone number if anyone wishes to confirm. 256-535-4400, Huntsville, Alabama.

MARKETING:
Since 2003 PowerStands has aggressively and actively seek to sponsor racing organizations, racers & racing teams, & track day organizations. At the time we've often came across racers/teams/organizations whom have tried but didn't even get a return call from PB about sponsorship.

In time, PB finally felt the heat created by PowerStands and started calling on some of the organizations whom were sponsored by PowerStands at the time. Trackaddix, LoneStarTrackDays, TrackDaz, JenningsGP, SportbikeTrackTime to name a few, switched from PowerStands to PB stands. We felt PB probably would not have made the moves had we not been actively capturing the market share.

We apologize to those of you whom may have had bad experiences with PowerStands products from before. PowerStands did gone thru some initial growing pains with less than perfect product features & hardwares and have thus improved and matured thru continuous product improvements.

PowerStands stride to make all of our products more user friendly with better features, quality and lower costs. We are proud to be sponsoring partner of various racers/teams/organizations and we will continue to do so in the foreseeable future.

Thank you for taking the time to 'hear' our side of the story.

Sincerely,

Charlie Hon
VP Marketing
PowerStands

[gazman]

well, i agree with you. Thanks for the info:)

[ngng]

I'm curious what material powerstands and PB each use to make the tire tree?